The Princeton Football Blueprint for Success with Head Coach Bob Surace

The Princeton Football Blueprint for Success with Head Coach Bob Surace
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[Music] All right welcome back we got a great Podcast today Derek is from Florida Today sunny Florida one of his second Beat it his favorite place on Earth I Guess Jersey's number two right I mean We'll get there Um we have a fantastic guest today coach Seras from Princeton head coach four Four Ivy League Championships uh been to the NCA Tournament um for for FCS uh his team Has done tremendous things since he's Taken over the program he was an NFL Coach for a few years and before that he Played as well uh at Princeton and he Was an all ivy league player so he's He's kind of been through each facet of It which I think is really interesting Um he is really u i i i don't want to Say a senior tener guy in age him at all But he's a senior tenard guy there uh in The ivy league and really has um and you Know we're based in New Jersey um you Know it's one of those programs I have Season tickets to to Princeton games I Go and enjoy Princeton games and as many Times as I've talked about you know Basically came down to Yukon and Princeton and and the people that that Love me at Yukon would say say I made The right choice and and the the people Who know a lot about success in life Would say I made the wrong choice

So with without without further Ado Let's bring on Coach SAS coach what's Going on how we doing how you doing guys Coach appreciate you coming on thanks For taking the time thank it's really It's really great to have y on talk talk Some Princeton football um before we Deep dive into everything because I Think uh your experience and and being Through a lot of different phases in Recruiting process and and being at the Ivy league and uh you know being one of The uh Elder Statesmen wink wink you Know of the of the ivy league right um You know you really have a lot of Experience but but talk about and I Touched on it briefly like playing Background coaching background how you How you got to Princeton well first off Derek we were Just you know talking if David was like Two years older I would have hosted him And he would have been a tiger right um My brother I heard I heard a little bit Of the conversation yeah my brother Hosted him and failed and just a few Years before him I got Keith Elias which I told David that was my entry into Coaching but I would not have lost him Um 100% listen that's something you Always have on your brother right like Hey you know hey you you couldn't do it I know I could have got it done I was Six for six hosting guys to Princeton

And I would have I did not lose they gave me Jersey guy I Did not lose Jersey guys and um talented Football players so that was the thing But uh look my my coaching background my I grew up in milville New Jersey um you Know Mike Trout uh is probably the most Famous Milian of all time and um my dad Was uh High School football coach my High School baseball coach he actually Coached uh you know Mike's father Jeff Who was best player my dad ever coached In baseball was also a great football Player but like probably every coach's Kid I grew up on the fields I grew up in The locker room I grew up on um bus Rides I was the bat boy for Mike Trout's Or Jeff Trout's team um in 1976 I was I had every job from uh entry Level on the sideline help my dad Putting playbooks together in the summer All those things to uh um statistician And I actually was on they had a small Local cable channel and I was helping Them feeding them stats during the game As I was old enough to do the math you Know on those things so I I was around Sports my entire life um I was probably The least likely I I didn't realize this But when I got the job at Princeton they Have uh when you're at a good school District the real estate agents give you This the rankings I was at a bottom 1% School and I was like a lot of the guys

I recruit am i g to fit in am I going to Be able to do the work is it all kids That are rich kids whose dads are CEOs At business and all these things I was Really worried about that in my Fit Until I came on my visit and um guidance Counselor told my dad she never work With him again if I didn't at least Visit you know make your decision but You got to see this and went there and Realized he I played with a number of NFL players the football was way better Than I expected this is 1985 you know on that and um the guys Were amazing to this day the guys that Are we're in each other's weddings we Vacation together and and really fit the The people they you know just High Achievers hard workers you know a lot of Them are doing things outside of sports Unlike you know myself but are really Successful in what they do I knew I Wanted to stay in sports wasn't sure if It was going to be on the coaching side Or administrative side um through uh our Linebacker coach Mark Harman got a Chance to GA at Springfield College Which was phenomenal experience couldn't Ask for any better you know with that um And I got my Master's in sports uh Management and I had the uh Charlie Castle was the GM of the Now command Y And Charlie was a Springfield grad I had The choice to go with him and go into

The Personnel aspect or work camps with My online coach around the country where All the coaches were after my first year I chose coaching I literally chose Coaching the first day I I I started out Working with running backs the first day I had my room like that was I knew I Wanted to do that but you know the Rubber met the road when I was doing my Schoolwork and I had these two Internships and went that route um Worked my way up I ended up being um uh In the late 1990s at Western Connecticut Ended up being the head coach there um Every stop along the way I had great Mentors that was phenomenal and I'm the Head coach at Western Connecticut I get A call from John Garrett one of my Teammates at Princeton with the Cincinnati Bengals and it's random you Know what do you think about the NFL Would you ever want to coach I saides he Goes great because you're flying out to Cincinnati tomorrow and um I ended up uh Getting the job offensive line assistant I was in the NFL for eight years and my Wife um she was uh uh learning and School administrator at Staples high School in Connecticut and the head Soccer coach she was not happy about This and I explained to her I am not Going to and we were successful at West Connecticut right really really teams And I'm not going to get if Princeton

Ever opens I won't get the job from Western Connecticut right my foots in The door is a finalist if I'm in the NFL And yeah when I got to the NFL one of The coaches said this is you get your PhD and I I did I learned from some Great people and great mentors um had a Amazing experience there and then you Know November 2009 Princeton came open And I I did I my wife actually believes Me and trusts me now because I did Become a finalist and only took you half Your life but it's Fine going in my 15th season is you know You guys are reminding me how old I am Now but uh I'm going into your 15 well It's it's funny because you know you Start out as a coach right and and when You first start coaching you're like oh I'm a young guy in the game and you know I'm doing well and young and then all of A sudden you look up and you're like how Did all these years go by you know and And and and You' and you're now the guy That other younger coaches uh start to Look to to get information on to get Advice on and and and it happens you Think when you first start you know You're like oh man I'm only in my fourth Year of coaching you know I need to get To like year 15 so people really resp Perspect and then all of a sudden it Happens you know bang yeah I went from Coaching guys older than me we had kids

At the same time in the NFL I was 30 to Our women's soccer coach at Princeton Reminded me the other day and it's kind Of the beauty of what we do and having To be able to adapt and the great Coaches all do that every year we get Older but the kids stay the same age That's right right if you're coaching a High school or college it's a defined Age group we're coaching and you know I'm hitting you know mid-50s right now And they're still 20 right and and and Really in coaching you know in your Mid-50s you're actually as a head coach You're actually very young you know it's It's it's only it's only because um you Know you see a lot of press with like a Lot of younger guy young guys and maybe In like their late 30s or maybe early 40s getting jobs which obviously in the Older days wasn't really as as big a Thing that was kind of a rarer thing um But I think it also probably has to do With some of the recruiting rigor that Goes on now in college I mean you could Probably speak to that more than anybody Yeah it's a little bit recruiting in Relationships and having teenage kids You know you know the last seven eight Nine years has helped me stay in that Pool of um that environment but just Relationships like I am very actively Engaged in that but I do think the one Thing and it's funny you know I'm not a

Video game guy and I've learned to use Technology Even though I was worried this might not Work Today everybody's on everybody all the People that can help me are in Florida Right now for me so you know me getting On I was I was a little worried last Night I didn't want to like have you Worry until you sent me the text I was Like good I'm on my own today so I don't Know if I got this but um listen if we Could get Tony Deo to have this thing Work you're good coach yeah but the use Of technology and and look I don't Follow you know but I've learned follow These gurus who can you know do things On Twitter on X I I guess now right Right and um and look at what they're Saying look at what they're doing on That way I know every kid opened up College football last weekend and They're running their playbooks and the Minds and even you know you're involved In the seven on seven world right I got Here and quarterbacks are in receivers And DBS they are so much further along You know we were talking about the Progress at Princeton you had freshman Football back in 1986 right right you Had then you you know your sophomore Year you had upper classman and there Was this you know now kids are further Along especially at the positions that

Don't require physical you know this Enormous physical strength the The Backs The receivers the DBS can be way more Immediately competitive because Football's become something they can do Um year round whether it is playing a Video game or looking up on their Technology or the seven on seven circuit When used right is awesome for them yeah And I've noticed it you know I've come To your games and I've watched you know Your guys offense and you guys are Multiple and your your qes can all run They can throw they you know your your Your skill guys are I mean they're Incred like route running and um and you You're able to use multiple guys Multiple backs um it's it's it's really Really awesome it's obviously you know a Lot of the the offenses around the Country have have continued to evolve But you guys have a great mix of the run And the pass and and utilizing a lot of The the stuff that everybody's use LINE You can no huddle and be able to move at A good pace and all that kind of stuff Which is which is great to watch I mean I have to say because I because I do Have you know season tickets to uh to Princeton games and we get to like a few I you know my wife's always like you Know we have these tickets we don't use Them every single week I'm like listen Don't worry you know if we get a few

Games in that that'll that'll be great We'll have a great time but I tell you What we love is like first of all if you Go obviously a lot of college games it's Hard to get like get season tickets and Get some really really good you're able To get some really good seats and then The Princeton fans man I mean they are Into it and when you get to those Rivalry games you know like when when You get to games like uh a Harvard or a Yale or I mean every game is almost a Rivalry game you know the I league is Very much a rivalry for every single Week is something right like everything Every week matters which is an Appeal oh yeah it's definitely it's it's It's amazing the appeal of it and I Remember a couple few years ago I had a Friend um I played with at Yukon his son Played for Dartmouth his last name was Mckenny uh mckenny kudin who's a line Outside linebacker for them and um and Uh and we we played Prince and I was Over on the prince's side and he was Over on the Dartmouth side and he you Know he had all his like his Dartmouth Gear on and and we were talking and like Can you believe that like we can even go Go into a stadium like this two State School guys that we could we're actually Allowed to come into like a Princeton Princeton dmouth game and we we you know We just had a blast in you know enjoying

The game and the crowd was so into it But you know talk about like the Princeton atmosphere I mean it's it's It's hard to explain it you can do a Better job than anyone else but when we We go when we go there not just for the Game but we go to Palmer uh Palmer Square and we go eat with you know I Bring my son and just talk about the Atmosphere and what Princeton is like as A whole yeah I I was amazed I told you In 1985 my dad had to grab me by the ear And drag me to come up there and to get Me to leave if if you know we don't do Well the president's going to have to Drag me by my ear to get out of here Right right um you fall in love with the Place people care you know the people in My life that have helped me whether it's Teachers administrators coaches it's not A big school Big Campus that way but Everybody comes back like reunions in The spring we get we have about a 100,000 living alums and 30,000 come Back for reunions and they fly from all Over country right and it's because you Know Princeton everybody lives on campus It's the dining Halls are closed in so You're eating in these small groups and It's really part of it is this meeting New friends communicating collaborating Whether it's on a school project or the Offensive line in football working

Together to get all their calls right But you're working in these small groups Um it's a four-year environment campus The social life is on Prospect and they Have these things they call them eating Clubs like we do have to have some Quirks right things that you know they Fraternities with food um where you eat As an upper classman but that's you Don't have to have a car you don't have To go out downtown you don't have to Everything you have is right there which Builds bonds and those bonds last you Know we talked about the 40 years it's Not just your Experience um in your career and the Success you may have it's also your Friendships and you know my nextd door Neighbor he he was from lower Kate may He was my big brother he was two years Older than me took care of me in college He's my next door neighbor his wife also Went to Princeton both his daughters Went to Princeton they were both Managers for me 10 houses away his College roommate uh was one of my College roommates um his my godson Getting married in a year like it's all Those friendships that you have and make That that really make the college Experience long term I call it a Marriage not not just marrying my wife But that Marriage yeah I I think it's it's a

Unique Community from that standpoint And it's it's interesting because when I Was young as an athlete we used to go There for for the uh state championships And track which I don't think I don't Think they do it there anymore they Don't they don't which I think they Should but that that's my uh that's my Uh uh uh but I I know that there are Some things that weren't uh being Behaved well by some of the athletes but Uh but that place is was it was great to Go there Jadwin JY and and uh uh they Played basketball there and and you know Uh you had P back in the day I think it Was Pete Carell right was the right was The basketball coach and I remember you Go you go to a basketball game there and And that whole atmosphere uh of the Princeton and all the Athletics are In it which I think for I don't know if The all the Ivy Leagues are like because I haven't been to every one of them but Um all of it's right in the same area Like I thought that your facilities as I'm talking about now your facilities Everything being in that right like the Practice fields are right there your Stadium is right there your workout Facili right there and and obviously It's an easy walk to any of of of any Place on campus from there talk about Like the I mean the facilities are Phenomenal that that have been built

There yeah it's not a reason you don't Choose Princeton I get it every time a Recruit comes in if we weren't strong Academically right you wouldn't have Visited if it wasn't strong academically That way that that that's you know an Attraction and success our Lums have had But the thing we have equal is time Right we all have 24 hours in a day and If you have to um if your facilities are Far away and your busing or you know However you get there and it takes you a Half hour each way And instead you're walking two minutes You're losing an hour a day and over Four years you're losing that time that Way so it's a very attractive thing to Be able to have all all the um Facilities in this one area it's also For somebody like me that was not the Best looking offensive lineman it got me Around like the women's soccer team not My wife right so you know the athletes On a serious note the athletes Bond You're like we go to each other's games Our football players will be at the Field hockey game and the women's Swimming team will be at our game and It's created a community which is nice But um you know we have this we're the Largest Endowment in the country per Student right so um while we're living In this new age of Athletics with Different you know different challenges

And good and bad we we do have the Ability financially to have facilities That meet the needs so our athletes can Have excellence and experience I think We have 26 Olympians you know at Princeton it's incredible amazing it's It is amazing and and um and we talked About a little bit uh you know before Before we got on but one of the unique Things about the ivy league and you just Had one that just got drafted I think I Don't know if it was this year or last Year but the receiver um and I can't you You'll be able to tell me the name but I I remember watch he was unbelievable Athlete the cathete he I mean he could Do everything talk about the attraction That a multisport a kid who's re Legitimately good at both Sports um Especially track what what you know what Is that what is that attraction for the Athletes there at Princeton and and talk Talk a little bit about that yeah where Our coaches have a close community and When I got the job Fred Samara was the Track coach when you were being Recruited he was here for legend you Know 50 years years won a million titles And Fred was somebody I knew when I was A student I get the job 25 years later He comes in my office wants to make sure That we can have a partnership and I'm Like really like yeah absolutely because We want speed we play fast we want fast

Guys we want athletes you know and I Like the multiport athlete they have More room to grow that's been important To me Um I I Think track doesn't interfere with Spring football that piece is great with Track uh you know we have to work Together with a lacrosse player we had One terrific receiver this year we have To work together with baseball again had Another had a baseball player this year We had a wrestler our nose tackle was All Ivy he pinned the Iowa heavyweight It's amazing think so you to be a two- Sport athlete you have to be like way Well oh yeah Andre yosias the receiver We had um we didn't really know about Him he was from puno in Hawaii his dad Was business partners with a guy named Mike Lurch that I played with um and Lurch re Mike reached out and can you Take Andre on and Andre walked in looked Like God's Gift 63 200 pounds he comes To camp we tore him comes to Camp runs a 44 and then he's a late bloomer in track And the track coach coach asks says this Guy's going to be Olympic to kathle I'm Like sure like I believe you but Olympic To kathle come on like that's you know Top athlete in the world right and um That year the heptathlon is the winner Version of it so we have a you know we Have our morning workouts and workout

Ends and I see um Andre and I'm like Andre hey you got heps heps is the I League Championship how you gonna do He's like I'm winning coach I was like Oh yeah high five think there's no way He's never P vaed he's never done half He never done half of what these guys Have like how's he gonna do this yeah And Andre wins the heps ends up breaking The record pointwise you know he won Like three Ivy most valuable you know Athlete in winter track won a couple in The cathlon Spring Track he turns down The ability to go to the Olympics to do Football you know just an amazing Amazing um experience From yeah so he he's he's one in a Million like you don't get right Athletes like that's a one in a million To do it at the Olympic level and I just Remember because every Scout every Tuesday Wednesday we got Scouts in Practice for the last 15 years Scouts With him would want to talk to our track Coach right and they they you know is he A track guy and that would just get our Track coach coach Samara he'd be fired Up yeah so pissed I will say this you Know you know Dave when you raced it's You know to win or lose it's in Milliseconds sometimes so the level of Detail to be great at track I told every NFL scout this guy will exceed Expectations because he understands

Detail Andre last year exceeded Expectations you know that way four Touchdown catches all these other things Because while other guys it takes longer To learn and understand detail he's been Doing it you know his whole life and That's thing that I think is is also um Has changed a lot with respect to the Ivy league is that um players from the Ivy league are able to go to the much More than they have in the past when Keith Elias went to the NFL he was I Think he was a free agent and it was Like a a a big story that he went to the NFL now more Rarity right yeah now you Have players that are going to the NFL More and more from the IV leagues Princeton even some of the other school And um you know talk about like how Because I remember we talked about this Maybe a couple years ago that if you if There's a guy good good enough and Obviously a good enough student right to Be able to go to Princeton no matter What his situation is Princeton has the Ability to to to M to make it happen Talk talk about now obviously he's gotta Be athletically good enough this is a Big thing for the parents here that Listen be athletically good enough be Good enough academically but talk talk About the things that Princeton are able To do to attract some of these really Top players now yeah well you think

About recruiting kids have choices and Recruiting is a lot different now than 2010 with some of the different things That are going on in the experiences and It's become way harder to be a school Like Ohio state that has not only all The things they have but nil you know All millions and millions of dollars um For their 85 scholarship kids maybe Beyond that but out side of the 40 Schools in the Big 10 and the um SEC and The Notre Dames and Florida States There's a few others we can go Toe-to-toe Because um there's only one NFL first Pick of the draft every year I get 25 Guys a few of them are going to go to The NFL each year there's two or three That get to the NFL and the other 22 are Going to be the first pick in the career Draft and that is important because They're going to work aot lot longer Than they play football AB outside so um You know for those looking at that our Strength coach and our development Program is second to n we control that So the ability for our guys to have the Same um strength program development Program performance program nutrition as Any school in the country because we do You know our alumni feed in like that That's important to them so we're going To be terrific so we can develop players To reach their abilities all the same

Now we're not you've been our games We're not going to play on ABC at 8:00 In front of a 100,000 fans there is Tradeoffs that are going to happen with Our kids but for most of the world we're Going to go toet totoe because they're Going to get education number one ranked School in the country I hope our players Would think they're getting values Discipline work ethic unselfishness Things that an employer wants you you Know that way and then we spend a lot of Time preparing them for Life After Football and we have the ability through Our alumni um to do it as well or better Than anybody so it becomes attractive Choice and a hard decision for the best Recruits in the country and we're you Know we have to get about 25 a year Somewhere between 25 and 30 we are going To lose some and it's coach Carill the Basketball used to call it Heartbreak Hotel right some of them it's admissions They're not quite there right some of Them they want a different experience They have a different and that's awesome They have a different Journey but for The ones who want this journey it's it's Not nothing's guaranteed in life but the Pathway is if they just follow the Template they will be Successful no there there's no doubt About it talk about like so I I don't Think people always have the grasp of

Like from a job standpoint when they Come out of Princeton like the Difference in someone going to Princeton What they kind of make as a starting Average salary versus someone who maybe Goes to a state school I won't name any State schools but a a state school what What kind of difference can they see on Average you know you know from going to Princeton yeah you can be successful From Anywhere there's no doubt in my mind you Can be successful from anywhere but We're going to be a near 100% football Rate of not just graduation but success That way because when I got here when I Played Princeton was on the top of the Resume and that was enough when I was a Player coach could make a call somebody From career office could make a call and You get the job right that was good Enough even when I got here that was Good enough people trusted me when I Said hey so and so now there's HR right They need more than just it helps it Gets you to the door right to have a Name on a resume that way it helps you When you play a team sport like football Which is we all know incredible for Future performance right if I'm hiring Somebody I want a football player right Because they get up at six in the Morning they put their time in they work Out they go through struggles and know

How to handle struggles they know how to Handle you know all the all the Challenges in life they know how to Handle they're good team players but Where we take take it to a new level is We're teaching them how to interview Both in person and on Zoom we teach them How to build a resume when I say we That's not me I'm I'm Outsourcing to Experts who know how to do the resume Thing so if they want something like if You want to be a coach you're not Starting at $100,000 and if you do well You'll make two or $300,000 in a bonus your first year You're not doing that in coaching right Coaching is like school you got to learn A skill set you got to pay your for most People you got to pay your dues all Those things to move your way up because You're not ready to run a room at 22 Years old that way but um difficult to Do it's very diff and I just God bless These young coaches who are incredible And they're way better than I was when I Was you know we hire a lot of guys with Quality control analyst roles and these Guys come into it they are so much Further along I Embarrassed yeah you think about what I Did in 1990 coaching the running backs Those guys overcame my poor coaching but You build a skill set Through Time right

And in that way so it's a little bit Different but if you want to be in the Wealth areas the finance areas the Commercial real estate areas like things Like that you're you're probably going To start somewhere near or over the six Figures and you know you do well if your Company performs well the bonus and you Look a lot of it comes down to the Economy globally and nationally but if That's in a good way you're G to get a Low to mid six figure bonus in December That which is which is unbelievable for People in their early 20s That's it's a it's it's a start on life That most people cannot even and and by The way 20 years from now you're Building off of that you you have a Great chance to be multi-millionaire Plus now I used to say um generational Wealth is what Oh years ago when I had a a a my very First head coach I had his kid Steve Maner went to Temple and he um but he Didn't come out for football till his Literally his senior year and um he was A basketball player and he basically Realized he was going to go to uh no Offense there because he went to Montclair State but he Montclair State Was the only place that was goingon to Take him for basketball right and and he Was like six foot five six foot six and Uh a very good player but you know

Basketball those guys are so good it's So hard right and um so he he he comes In and like uh the end of July he says I Want to play football yeah I want to try It the kid ends up getting like a few Offers division one he ends up choosing Temple and then he goes and he becomes An old conference player and he goes to The NFL he plays in the NFL for six Years so um it it's and he he always Said he said the that money that he made There put him his start on life in a Different Stratosphere than anybody else He knew you know and he came from the Same town that I had s you know Saddlebrook and he said put him in a Whole different Stratosphere and uh and he's just like Uh I you know the fact that you came out And you you helped me and it made all The difference so when we talk about Like when you go to Princeton and you Could start an possibly a six figure Salary coming out that's a a Fant if you Do well that's a fantastic start to Really set you up for your life and it's It's something that young people I think Especially today's economy where you Know if you live in New Jersey you know I mean houses are you you want and you Have to spend a million dollars now for Like a normaliz home in a lot of cases And and I want to be clear I look at I I When I got here when I went as a student

Everybody was funnel into the finance World right and I when I came here as a Coach because a lot of my friends they Made a lot of money but they weren't Happy and they Other things like look you know be happy In what you do there's a lot of ways to Be successful but if if they wanna you Know when I coached at Western Connecticut they want to do whatever They want to do my job part of my job is To help them first off make sure they Graduate and and speaking of Monclair 1999 they in the playoffs they kicked Our ass I got my butt kick by mon Clair It was a great game West it was usually It was usually one of those weeks where We knew like you know by the by that Second half we were going to get a Couple series and that was it but I Was Hammer we had a shot to win our First playoff game in history we did it The next year at Western Connecticut and Oh man that was a heartbreaker but you Know my whole be happy like choose the Field your your because you're going to Work all this time I come into work Every day and I am at the place I want To be a job that I love surrounded by People that are just exceptional so I Want our our our players to think that Mindset is opposed to just go into Finance because I'm gonna make a lot of Money because right there's a lot of

Ways to have this success that you might Not make a lot of money early on but You'll get there if you keep working Well you're you're you're the embodied The example of that you know and uh it's And I think that that's a the choices Right like you you could figure out at At Princeton you got you really try to Help guide them to make good choices for Their own what their own future is is Going to be and and and be able to Figure that out right that's uh I think That's one of of the beauties of that Opportunity to go to Princeton is you Can really take that time to figure that Out it's a obviously a fantastic Learning environment um you know as You're coming to the uh Derek when You're coming right by the stadium There's a gigantic I can't remember if It's chemistry buil building I mean it Looks like uh state-ofthe-art like what Is That chemistry Building that's my wife's like can we go Into the chemistry building I I'm like They're not letting you in that Chemistry building like you're get in That thing I will um during training Camp it's the best Auditorium I've ever Been in um if you can ever get there on A Saturday and walk through it the Building is amazing but it's the best Auditorium I will do team meetings in

Training camp there I've never been in I Feel like it's the highest level of like A theater you could possibly be in to Watch a movie like it's awesome I think It's uh and you touched on it a little Bit too I think it's one of the the Appeals of Princeton too not just that You're getting set up for your future in Such a way where you know and and and And you do a great job of you know uh Making your players aware of their Opportunities but also like those guys Around each other in the locker room now You know that peer-to-peer when you guys Are talking about hey I'm going to go Into Finance or hey I'm going to go into This or hey I'm going to go into that And meanwhile what's the common Bond Here it's like we're talking about a Football locker room but you got guys in There talking about all kinds of stuff That's just totally different that I Really think builds that camaraderie and It's just like such a huge appeal to go To an Ivy League or go to a Princeton Where now you know I think guys with This new nil and the transfer portal They're really losing out on those kind Of relation ships that you know quote Unquote older guys like us really really You know set us up for life that some of Those bonds I mean coach you were Talking about your neighbors and this The stuff that you had that on campus

For that stuff guys now are going to a School and then they're leaving and They're doing that they don't really get That locker room vibe that we all got And I think you know the Ivy Leagues Have kind of in a way they're really Like some of the few schools that still Kind of have that within their rosters Themselves yeah in 37 years we've had One transfer in like on four fingers I Can say we've had three transfer out as Undergrads and one transfer in and that Piece is really important but you know I Do think kids look at stability is my Wife went here I went here every coach Is gonna say I'm gonna be here the rest Of my life and then their eyes were Always looking sideways at the thing um I think there's something to this is Home for me our defensive coordinator Has been here 40 years twice he's been Runner up for assistant coach at the Division one level of the year um Steve Urbet I got three other coaches that Have been Princeton going into their Ninth year I have two going to their Sixth year the coaches that have left Like we lost one coach last year Mike Willis I don't think he's even 30 years Old goes becomes a head coach at Maris Right division one school Andy Ari head Coach at Harvard you guys just had him On James Perry head coach at Brown um we We've had you know some of the

Assistants leave to power fives or the NFL they're not leaving for lateral Moves right because there is stability There is you know so much to the Relationship piece that we have and look They are high Achievers we had a guy Jaylen Travis um he's gonna get drafted Next year he's grad transfer we've had a Few grad transfers he was one I told That he needed to go Like I cooked St line for um eight years In the NFL he needed um new voices like His stock with me maybe he can go up More you know on that and he can get nil But this guy won the John Wooden award He won the John Wooden award is the the Citizenship Award his ability to do Things in the community and he's Probably gonna be I don't know if he was Old enough he'd be president of the United States all the drama that's going On this guy will be president like he is Such a commanding and I learn from him When he comes in because we don't have Time as coaches sometimes to keep up With what's going on in the world no and Just having a Conversation and still at this day it's Not just the locker room it's these One-on ones these bus rides dinners that You have with the guys it's not just him You're learning from your players that Way and when you get a group of high Achievers that are together for four

Years they they tend to gain something Out of that I think you brought up a Point too about the ability to grad Transfer after you graduate for Princeton right um a lot of these guys Do that that's a unique I I think Opportunity that like a Princeton Affords an i League affords to you Because you you can go there play for Four years have that stability develop Those relationships and oh by the way if You really are that good right then you Can go and and grad transfer and um and I think that that is a um amazing thing That the ivy league affords that much Better than a lot because you you know If a guy is at some point going to grad Transfer he graduates from your your Program school and and he's and he has The opportunity to get nil and go go Somewhere you you know that he's an Elite elite guy and I think that that's A it's almost like a I don't want to say A crazy Best of Both Worlds but like it Really does do kind of something like That it's almost like it's the world we Live in right it's the world in now and I can be happy I can complain instead Let's look at it you know how can this Be a positive thing how can we adapt to It you guys are because a the value Isn't typically in freshman certainly The guys were hurting right the value Might be in Arch Manning he's top kid in

The country right the value might be in Those top 10 kids but the value is in The guys who are older because now they Know they've developed that way so they Do do get this experience I meet with Every kid because here's the Dilemma our Guys have now Jaylen Travis He also won The Truman Ward his law schools paid for Whenever the NFL's done I couldn't do Anything else for him so it was like you Gotta go but the other six kids I had Here's the value you either you know get This unique experience we have a Linebacker Azie Nicholas going to Duke We have another linebacker Liam Johnson Going to Cal you get a chance to Experience this Or the internships are so much better The same thing like nil's better the Internships they can get are better so When you get a fifth year I can set These guys up with the greatest Internships they could possibly have Which is also nil in some way it might Be a little Bit yeah it's of a for decision process Yeah and and I'm literally I just sit Back and listen what do you want out of Your experience some of them are Confused they want to go through it some Of them know this is what I want Azie I Know this is what I'm doing some of them Are confused they want to go through it And some are like coach I want to work

In finance what's the best you know Connections and what's the best Relationship you have to get me there re Really really interesting it's a it's a The perspective that you have as far as How you handle the guys and and I think The the cultivation of those Relationships is is is really really Interesting and and Derek brought that Up like that it's amazing that that We're in a world like that but it is it It it is a unique thing because you know You've had you you said you had four Total transfers in or out in in 37 years You know uh Colorado had uh 75 75 the First year and 57 the second year right So it's it's to there's like totally Different worlds and the kids that You're attracting are you know like I Look at it as from a parent standpoint Like You know that would concern like if my Child ended up ever being good enough to Be a college player and and and a higher Level player like my concern would be I Don't want my kid hopping three schools In four years you know just because he Feels like um you know I I either it Didn't work out playing wise or I I want Him to have some stability because I Think it helps him in in in his life Right and it's funny because we talked About the video games in the beginning I'm watching my n old right and the

Video game I told this to Derek Yesterday I said uh the college football Game that just came out I said my son Created his own player right and his and After the first year where he went to Nebraska he rushed for 1800 yards his Player and then he went and Tra and he Jumped into the portal and went it Encouraged you like it shows you who you Can go in the game right so it's always Encouraging it he goes to Colorado he Goes to Colorado because he likes Dion Right like he's always on te He goes to Colorado and uh Dion moves His his fictional guy to receiver he Jump catches a bunch of passes but my Son's unhappy with his kid playing reer His guy playing receiver so he jumps up In the portal again go somewhere play His running back and I was telling this To Derek and I said you know like I'm Not sure if this game is good for him or Bad for him you know I mean because he's Like thinking oh my guy doesn't get as Many yards as many times I'm jumping in It's preparing him to be instead I said It prepares you for coaching he's Prepared for The New Normal at the power For the you know Big 10 SEC level on That that's what the world it's what We're living in But that scares me you know like I don't Want that right Derek you probably think The same way right right and but I also

Think coach like you know I think you Handled the situation and you're Successful where you're at because you Were there you were a player you know The ins and the outs and intricacies of Princeton you know the benefits all of That like you're what like you Understand that some other coach coming In there you know they might not Understand that or they don't get that Right and now you're tenure you've been There for a while add your years as a Player and all of that like you Understand Princeton football or you Understand Ivy League football right Like some guys they want that and Understand it some guys they come in They get a taste of it because hey this Is a a quote unquote division one job Right like I don't even think many People even understand that the ivy League is like a division one conference Right you guys are kind of just oh That's the ivy league they're their own I mean all of these things that now Appeal and and you know you have to have A certain type of kid that understands What it's all about but I think you and Your staff guys that have been through It or were players there understand what Princeton's really about yeah I think I Worked job until 2010 meaning coaching Was a job and I just changed uniforms Right and I love the kids I love the

Places I was at I built relationships But it's a little different when it's Yours right when it's your people and It's a little different when it's home When it's your wife's home when I mean I've had people staying over house the Last three weeks it's like 14 to 21 days College friends who are here taking Their kids to Princeton camps or coming For our Golf and I love that it's it's Not like you know it's a yes hey I mean I you know you want to because and they Can afford hotels it's not like they It's there it's because we want to hang Out and and we're friendships these are 35 year friendships you don't get that I Didn't get that at the other places like There's pieces I missed at the other Places um I say this all the time like I Alumni events and coaches have to do Those these are my friends like they're Paying me to drink coold Beverages and Red cups um to go hang out with my Buddies right and talk about what we all Did Princeton football that's not a job Event our president has Princeton he's Been here 12 years Princeton Alum he Gets Princeton he loves Princeton he Could do a million other things he wants To impact people here our athletic Director and our athletic director's Wife I work with three ads all three of Them Princeton alums they could do rad Currently he was a lawyer he took a pay

Cut to come here because he loves this He loves the impact he's making my um You know the former one was at our Wedding we were at each other's wedding The former one played soccer with my Wife you know she's now the LPGA Commissioner and they had to pull her by The ear like it was a no-brainer Position for her but she had to leave This you know that way so I do think you Know our our Career Development Office Says like you can have a job you can Have a career but ideally you want to Get to your calling where you're meant To be and doing what you're meant to do 100 per. I think some of and the word is Getting a little bit out because I do Well I I see a lot of players that um That we work with that we talk to that Ask like okay I yeah I'm gonna go to a Um you know a Princeton Camp I'm going To go to an iamp and I I want to go There I want to get recruited by there Now they don't all understand like yeah They don't like I I try to tell them Like okay your GPA is 3.1 like you're Like dude like you're not getting in Like this is not this is a different you Know thing but but I do think That um and I've noticed this little Uptick in the last couple years maybe it Coincides with the transfer portal I Don't know I I really don't know the Correlation or if there is a correlation

But um but I've noticed the interest Like players more and more have asked me Definitely yeah yeah right and Derk you Would confir say like what about Princeton like what is their recruiting Like like they've asked those questions Like I'm interested in Princeton and and More and more players have been had an Interest in the ivy league and I don't Know if it has to do with social media Maybe that you know many years ago you Know the Ivy League schools were kind of A Northeast thing not you always Recruited nationally I know that but but It was kind of like a North the Northeast knew what it was but if you Were recruiting kid from Texas let's say You'd have to really educate him on what Princeton was about but today that kid From Texas might have some information And already have an interest in it you Know maybe he goes to a private school Or or he or he just is a really good Student as a good I think that's one of The things too right like I think that Has a lot to do with it is the you know More of the focal point on like there's A lot more private schools right at the You know the high school level and Whatnot and kids kind of going there but You know I also think that you know like You said social media right there's more Of a vision or like you know guys can See now really it's not so much of a of

A Northeast kind of I guess like you Would say like a good old boy club right It wasn't just like oh it's only people That go there are alums of people that Have gone and whatnot um plus I also Think that like like we you touched on a Little bit too the whole fifth year Thing where I can graduate from an Ivy League school and then possibly have the Opportunity to go to a power five and Play and if that's something that you Feel you can handle that's just another Way to go about it and you're kind of Double dipping because now you're coming Out of there with a degree that's going To land you a job that's better than Most of other places that you can go to So I think it's a combination of a lot Of that plus just overall in general IV League football has gotten a lot better Yes like competition wise and you've Seen a lot of these guys take that step To the next level and you're like wait He came from where and now guys peque Their interest and now it's just you Know a domino Effect yeah you guys hit the nail on the Head you guys have been doing this right Um long enough to you know hit the you Know not only is social media and kids Can get research from anywhere within You know we send let's say an initial Email invite to Camp oh God even his Parents can look us up like in seconds

But the number of times I I've you know Worked with you know you David like send Me a kibit the the video immediate this Isn't VHS tapes and DVDs and it's not That type of recruiting anymore that Took weeks to get video it's Instantaneously so I spend and I carve Out at least an hour every day to watch Video right just to keep up with these Most the most talented kids um that way I also think where the portal has Affected it where even in the Big 10 and SEC now there's outliers right I think Ruckers has 29 commits in this class but Where schools used to take 25 they're Now taking 15 yep right and so they at High school right like high Schooling High School window is now Shrunk a ton yeah yeah we're not looking At the portal so those extra 10 kids per School when you look at however many FBS Schools that are 130 that's a lot of Spaces left some of those kids have Great grades So that's had openings you know up for Us you know that way and then there are Kids who are they're going and I had two Kids right go just go through their Journeys they had different things but For both of them the locker room was Important stability was important Looking at the head coach is this head Coach gonna be out the second um Somebody else the next shiny whatever

Job opens up because look coach I'm sure You've had opportunities to get out of There and leave but that's your baby This is where you're at and for me Coming from a traditional group one Program like where tradition freaking Matters and now I'm at one now where Tradition matters like that's to me that Appeal sometimes like that would Overtake a lot of other things that Would pull me to a bigger school right Or or or something of that nature and The thing is when the schools do call And a lot of them are the higher Academic or you know I'm not leaving for A lateral mov like nobody's doing that Like but when somebody calls the thing Is um typically you're not going to be On their A-list which means you can't do The things to fix the program so why do I want to go somewhere that's going to Be headaches not have a chance to win And deal with all the other stuff when I'm coaching amazing kids I'm working With amazing people you know the support From the ad and others is incredible Like When a search firm calls the Conversation's brief and I'm very uh uh Grateful right I'm grateful that Somebody thinks I'm doing a good job Right but it's not you know Unfortunately there's not the interest You know in that um and these are you

Know really good places and there Somebody else probably is a better fit Than I am for them right most often or I You know you know you're on the a list You get everything you want then I have To talk to my wife hey would you think About this but but it's because the Money out there for that level is Incredible like but right you know I'm Happy sometimes the juice just isn't Worth the squeeze and it is what like Coach you have a greatest setup like you Could possibly think up you got your Dream job you know your wife's happy Right your kids's right around the Corner you can go see him anytime you Freaking want he can come home and do What like that to me balances out like Money it's just not even not even a and I'm modeling right I'm modeling for my Future players who they're going to have Opportunities to make a little more Money right and maybe it's a little more Name on the wall prestige on the outside World right but you're you're you know Why why are you doing this my dad Coached and taught one place for like 40 Years you know was head coach for 25 Years um he had a health issue right had To go to the hospital a number of times Up you know down from South Jersey up to Right you know Central Jersey and he had A former player rode with him like this Is like a book like if they captured the

Conversations coach with player 50 years Later 40 years later and then Reminiscing like I I think you know the Scare went away mostly because his Spirits were so high being with his Former players and being at one place And we had a guy Karan Reed was in the NFL for 10 years great player right Mount St Michaels in the Bronx great Player um Captain Champion Long NFL Career career ended tours Achilles older Guy career ends he's gonna go to Business school the same head coach that Was with him is the guy writing his Recommendation right to business school And he got in a great business school It's that that that piece and it warms My heart like Kuran Reed asked me to Write it right I I hope like I can make A minuscule impact on somebody's life That way absolutely I remember K great Player I met him when he was in high School coming going through camps and Stuff like that and uh it it amazing how He continued to improve and get better And and go to Princeton and get better And uh uh just you know New York kid Right it's it's a um it's it's amazing Those kind of things it's the relation So the relationships absolutely Um are I I think that's and you talked About you know with your players with Career choices happiness and CH choosing You know choosing relationship choosing

Happiness I mean it it I you know those Themes and it's funny because those Themes build a team and which relate in The end on the field portion of it all Right to to great performance which you Guys have had um talk about what you Guys are able to do from a coaching Standpoint with your players that might Be unique o o over anybody else coaching Coaching their players that really Builds that camaraderie because haven't Watched a lot of games I I I see that Camaraderie I see the way what you know Way the the parents are in stands I know You know a few of the parents the kids That that that play for you and they Just they're so excited they love it so Much you know uh talk about those kind Of things yeah I sent out a a post Yesterday we had our golf outing like a Week ago and um guys from my first teams Were there and I took a f my wife Actually took the photo of me with these Guys that I love that are really Successful you know almost 15 years Later and um I wasn't a great head coach At the beginning we weren't a great team We went one in N my first year we Followed It Up by going one in N my Second year but what we did was build a Culture right they are the foundation of Everything we've done since those first Two years and I um regret not being able To help better so we could have won more

Games you know in those early years Y And I hope like they don't look at it as A negative you you know because you know We just we didn't win and I was a part Of this issue a big part of it but we Figured it out and they're part of the Solution that way that that culture Piece we use the hashtag look I'm I'm Older I'm using hashtags right there you Go go you're in it we right from the Beginning use the hashtag juice that way And that's energy enthusiasm passion I Like people have great attitudes like That are positive that enjoy what They're doing that love football that Love you know and they're going to get Challenged right it's top school in the Country they're going to get challenged Academically they're gonna get Challenged like anybody around me on a Football field they're going to get Challenged um on the field our strength Coaches a performance staff are amazing They're going to get challenged but how Do you approach it our guys approach the Weight room and they're going to work Their tails off in the weight room or Running and they pound on the door Before it's locked before we let them in And they are screaming yelling pounding On a door that's exciting right when They come out to practice they come out With energy knowing I'm gonna work them W within reason right depending on the

Day as hard as they could possibly work To get better that way they're going to Be in a class with some Nobel Prize Physics Professor who's going to give Them problem sets that eventually they Feel a great deal satisfaction solving But I'm sure our players are cursing me On having them come to Princeton when It's 1 in the morning and they're Solving something but that's life Critical thinking and work ethic those Are lessons and valuable lessons for Life and I I hope they're getting those Lessons through this um but the the Culture piece and the enthusiasm like I Know we were La we were talking about You know them being in the locker room And talking about these high level Things that are going on in the world I Can guarantee you we got bean bags we Got EA Sports got Xbox I can guarantee You the last four days the Conversation's been about the same you Know trade and whatever portal and Right they're nine years old it's 20 Years old there's nine years old it Doesn't matter They're the same age as your son they're Doing the same thing as your son outside Of their lift and their work during the Day but the other eight hours it's zero Difference than what your son's done the Last four Days that's very very true I I have one

I have one final question and uh um you You were an offensive lineman you're now A head coach and we've talked a lot About like um you know and Andy Reid and And and how you know things that he's Done he was you know offensive line guy And and what what does an offensive a Guy with offensive line experience Really bring to head coaching down Because look it everybody you know there You see a lot of times oh this guy was a Quarterback you know quarterback coach And they they the shiny positions manin Everybody that yeah what is an offensive Line lineman line coach bring to the Table as a head coach that I think is Really I I think I know the answer but I'm asking you so people understanding What it is that offensive line coach Really brings uniquely to the table as a Head coach yeah well well um going back To that my dad was a head coach and when You're a high school coach the greatest Coaches in the world are the High School Coaches especially the ones at public School because you can't pick your Players right right if you're at a Private school you have a little more Flexibility getting a kid maybe to come In but you're you're at milville high School for 25 years dad relied on Genetics of mom and dad who happen to Live in the town right that's what he Relied on so you know he ran the verer

People don't even know what the verer is He ran the T he ran the wishbone he ran Proi but when he got quarterbacks he Also ran the run and shoot when that was Big in the late 1980s right right so you Had to adapt your your your um uh Offense or defense depending on your Talent to that I I get it like Nick Amazing you know greatest coach he got To pick his players he could say I want 6' one corners and if they weren't 61 we Weren't he could get six foot one Corners if that's what he wanted he Could say he wanted his slots to run Four threes and he could get that that's Not going to be us I can't choose that So if and D you guys watched us we've Had quarterbacks that are dropback Passers we've had quarterbacks that are Athletic dual threat we we've kind of Based it around our Personnel that way And I think that way with the offensive Line the offensive line having played it You know it's kind of like being a head Coach um yes it is you're not Um the quarterback's gonna get a lot of Credit when there's success or a lot of Blame when there's failure their Receiver is going to get his name in the Paper running back you know when they Score have big games defensive guys with Sacks and interceptions and tackles but It's this you know football is the Greatest team sport right and the value

And the reason we coach is team right It's these people it's relationships It's you know friendships it's now that You're you know you go into coaching It's the friendships you have in Coaching and we do this like the number Of people you guys impact is more than Me right it's because you do the podcast It's thousands and thousands and Thousands and thousands of people you Guys impact I have 30 new players 25 new Players that I hope to impact that over Time winds up being like a thousand People that I hope to have a positive Impact but oine is the found it really Is it's they're not getting credit they Have to work together in a way they're The unsung heroes but as you're building A team you need to have guys sacrifice And look the every guy we bring in Typically they're the best player at Their high school when you said people Don't understand the talent every guy we Bring in captain of their team top Player all League every you look at our Roster every single one of them had Those accolades and then they go to College and it's no different they go to Our place or they go to Alabama they're At the bottom of the dep truck they Gotta figure it out right it's hard you Know to do either place so they got to Learn how to get on the field on special Teams or to embrace a different role

Most we've had some freshman dominate But for the most part they're the Exception they got learn how to be a Role player to be a great teammate they Learn these other things well old Lineman have been doing that their whole Lives right that's what they've been Doing so I hope it's building that that That culture piece it's building that um Those guys you know we've had almost Every year in O lineman that's a captain They're the big guy that commands the Room and just we've been really Fortunate my my favorite year as an Assistant coach was when uh we I coached For DJ nyus who you probably know pretty Well uh at riverdell and he made me the Offensive line coach that year so I was A special teams coordinator but he's Like I'm I'm Gonna Make You the Offensive line coach and I could tell You to this day those guys were the most Enjoyable people to coach because not First of all I was I had never coached Offensive line even though I already Been a head coach I had never I didn't Know the ins and outs of the offensive Line like I did had to learn that year And and those are we've had DJ on the Podcast actually one of the funniest Podcasts if you ever go go back and Watch Ever is we had DJ DJ nius with Tony Deo on that was just oh God oh my God it was Tony Deo with technology

Coach was like that's why I said there's No worries for you with technology no There's no worries get Tony on we're Good and we love Tony he's great I Obious legendary coach but but with Technology and DJ were like we got to Have a rep podcast with when we get Tony Dale we go into his room and help him With the technology but um but yeah so The offensive linemen were so great I Mean we go eat breakfast on Sundays you Know after after games and and if they Got certain amount of Pancakes and they You know they'd be pointed to me in the Sidelines like that's my fifth one you Know that's my fourth one you know and And we would tally it as a group and They they were so they were so much fun Not just the the the X's and O's portion Of it but they were so much fun in General because they appreciated to me The work that you put in with them more Than and and I've coached every position But those guys appreciate the work you Put in with them more than anybody else Because their job is a a thankless job For the most part and um and and they're The ones that cleared away for the guys To be able to score touchdowns but the Fact that someone was there with them Every day and appreciated them and and Enjoyed being around them and and and by Then I was no longer a running back I Was you know 265 pounds so you know I

Was actually heavier than they were so At that point but um it was just such a Great time and I I really enjoyed I was I I always tell DJ this I'm like Greatest thing you ever did for my Coaching career was forced me to go to The o o line and it was more than just X And O's I learned to really Appreciate uh players that really had to Do the hard work in the game because so Many times in football the offensive Lineman are doing all this hard work and D lineman obviously on the on the other Side right um and they they don't get Any credit and I I really learn to Appreciate what those guys did and every Day going forward as a coach they were Always the guys anytime we ever have a Problem even when I coach youth with my Son I say Hey listen I'm going down with The offensive line you know you guys I'll have Co a coach work with you guys I want those guys to know that we Appreciate them because and you football Nobody wants to play the offensive line No matter who you are and how big you Are but but if you appreciate them then They they're willing to you know they're Willing to do Oh They'll run through a Wall for you right and also that's like You know just to add on to it a little Bit like that's the group like they get The most Indie time together right like You're off to it special teams or

Whatever maybe like one or two of those Guys but bro other than that you're over And look I'll reference Montclair State Coach G offensive line guy right when we Were doing whatever where was Coach G He's up in the stands with a marker Board working with guy they're over and We used to call it lineman land because They had their own piece of turf set off From the field like and we went as they Went and you know he taught me you know How much you know if you want a coach Derek because you're GNA be a coach Right like you that's what you are and What you want to do I can see it already He goes your offensive line that's the That's the Catalyst of your entire team Like how they go you go whether it's you Know they do what they do but that group Itself right like they're just different It's those Five Guys them against the World all day every day and you know so Coming from a a program where my head Coach was also an offensive line guy Like just taught me a ton about how Important that position is and just have The utmost respect for it yeah it Probably expands your uh coaching like I I learned this I had every year do a uh Study when I was with the Bengals when I Was coaching the NFL on opponent and I Had the Patriots one year and bell with Young coaches he'd bring in these entry Level and he always had him go to the

Opposite side of the ball you know learn Something new I've tried to do that with Our um Quality Control coaches it really Helps them to learn and look it's so Rare I can't recall one time in my eight Years the NFL with the o line having one Issue ever you know accountability or Anything else no but I'll say this like In basketball there's only five guys on The court there's one ball but that Ball's in the Stars hands right they get Their shots you can't control it as much Like if you want to double team the Great receiver you can limit the number Of throws to him that way and it's hard Because these guys are getting paid a Lot of money in the NFL and they have a Lot of especially with fantasy football A lot of pressure Right from the Outside moner be the decoy or anything Else and so you're always dealing with That when you're coaching other Positions trying to find ways to get Your guys you pay the most the ball There's only one ball so keeping them All happy is hard and it's you know very Difficult for offensive coaches you know At the positions outside of o line and Usually quarterback No it's it's very true the one ball Thing is it it's gets harder and harder I I I always say this to kids we you got S of course every everyone wants the

Ball all the time n you this year you Better figure it out that's what it's All about yeah I I think we have I made The mistake of getting too many stars on Our team because everyone wants the ball But um but yeah it's it's one of the one Of the things that um that's the hardest Thing is that there is only one football And the way that that media is now like Everything is so glorified around who Has the ball you know all the short Takes and the short clips you see and All these kind of things y Allend at the end of the day you're like Well okay you know if you're in if You're in high school and you have a Really good running back that guy's Probably getting 15 to 20 of the touches Right the quarterback has the ball his Hands every play whether he's throwing It or or handing it off but he has ball Now outside of that one in those two Individuals Okay um it receiver a great if a Receiver has four catches a game in high School multiplied by 11 that's 44 Catches he's more than most teams even Throw it sometimes in high school right I'm saying a guy catches I could count On my hand how many times I've had guys Had more than 40 catches you know So yeah I was just going to say there's A lot of pressure you know maybe not at 9u but

Coach it might be more on you because Some of those Mommy and daddies they're Wicked coach you've been through it you See it they're Wicked there's not the Pressure of college right they get to High school and they put so much blame On the high school coach right and Really the blame should go to us right Because we have the film even if you Only had one catch you have a highlight Video right you have highlights you have All the stats from your track or Whatever else you're doing we see the Kids in person and all those things but I I do think sometimes um it's really The college coaches like it's hard to Valuate guys and we make mistakes but Man the High School coaches I've dealt With are are just incredible right they You know they understand it's you know We're not trying to lose we're trying to Bring in the best kids right but it's It's not easy and we used to when we Were being recruited to Princeton Princeton had 65 spots because they had A freshman football correct that numbers Now 27 spots it's not even half it's you Know it's like 40% of the spots we used To have that that's really hard when you Recruit nationally when Andre o from Hawaii you know gets a spot that's a Spot that could go to a friend of ours That coaches a great team in New Jersey Right and that's where it's really hard

Because I know that coach is gonna get Um talking to from the parent and he's Gotta explain what we thought that's Really hard that's why I try to be I'm Not I try to be uh on top of things Especially text from High School coaches Or emails I try to make sure our staff Gets back because the parents are Waiting for the coach to find out what We think it's amazing I I think that's Aund I think that's one because that's One of the biggest complaints we hear Communication coach's communication's Always been a phenomen I think that's One of it's one of the biggest Complaints we get right like oh I sent This guy a message and he didn't this And it's like this guy do you understand This guy gets like over a thousand Freaking messages and that's one Platform okay like and he doesn't have All these little like whatever Minions That can help him out read this message Or read that message like we're not Living in that world guys sorry I know You're email or text is good if you when You get over 50 years old email or text Is good like the the other stuff like I Can't keep up with it's just too much Ins we have staff that keep up with that For me I I can't keep up with that I Can't imagine it across all as much I'm Not on it as much as I am these other Direct line things well um one last

Question I kind of just thought of this And from from a recruiting standpoint Because there's so much like literally Misinformation on a on a lot lot of Stuff with respect to recruiting like I I I I can't tell you how many times a Guy a parent will you know uh I talked To this coach and and and uh then I Didn't hear anything or you know what is The things that athletes and parents can Do um and I think it's most important For the athlete to take most of the Responsibility but that they can do to Really uh get themselves in front of you To and I you know Camp as one but let Let's say like they didn't they didn't Get to your Camp you know this this Summer and then um how what what's the Best way for them to get your film how How should they cut it up in the fall What what do you like to see from a from A recruiting standpoint to help you Evaluate them better yeah it depends on Age a little bit and position you Know quarterbacks seem to be committing Earlier um especially this cycle That way other kids at other positions Are stting maybe that position's going First other positions are going later I I I think that when you when that's a Great question but it's everything now I A ninth grader isn't going to move the Needle because I don't have their Academics yet right right I I really

Like five semesters but some of these Kids are just so incredible academically After four semesters I can predict Pretty well how they're going to Emissions is going to look at them um That way but uh is it put you Know highlight videos right start with That um start with your good plays right If you have a 10-minute highlight Video right I mean like start like There's a process to it I do think some Of the kids come in unaware we had a Great player at Camp um the other day And um you know we had water break then Bring him back I you know do a talk with Him and his kids were coming back from The water break he's like is Princeton FCS or FBS so I do think um Do no no do some research like I I told The whole group hey life lesson any big Decision college is a big decision do Your research it sets you apart um Whenever we because February's now dead For FCS so we used to get thousand kids Come through Well I did three zooms I had 2,000 kids On Zoom they'll put questions in the Chat not at each one 2,000 total I'll Put questions in the chat and some of Them ask questions that you can find out For yourself this is a big decision like With my two kids they didn't go anywhere That they didn't know right that they Didn't have um on their own know whether

It's what fit them from an possibly fit Them because you don't know when you're 15 or 16 what might fit from an academic From from a culture from a um a Standpoint of their athletic you know Pursuits that way you know you know ask Good questions um get invol like if your High school coach is good he's reaching Out but some of them they got a lot of Stuff they're doing they're working they Got other jobs they don't work in the School they work in the school but they Teach six you know classes a day you Know find somebody else that can help With that you know they can send the you Know you know that's you know where guys Like you come in right because it really Helps them to um have an advocate have Somebody that's advocating for them that Way because our database is over 20,000 Recruits now it's four years but it's Mostly 25 right if there's you know 10, 25s 7, 26s and the other 3,000 4,000 or 27s 28s On that because it is too early we're Not trying to get I'm not trying to Build through the 27 28s because um you Know it's wasting their time to do a Tour when they're in nth grade and they Might be Geniuses they might not want This um but yeah do all those things um That's a lot of kid that's a lot of kids In you know that you guys are evaluating I I think that's one of the

Misconceptions that people have and I Know you see you're laughing so you know It's true like that you're only Recruiting like you know kids you know You have 20,000 kids in in in in your in Your database uh that that's a lot of Kids and that you guys are you're Filtering through Essentially um you know it's one of the The things I always said like oh I'm Gonna go to the print I'll use Princeton As example I'm going to go to the princ Camp you know I went to I don't know XYZ FBS School my 40 isn't uh wasn't good Enough for the I I always said listen You still have to you have to run a gr 40 at Princeton too like That's a ton of kids that's kind of part Of the misconception I think they think Oh I'm I'm just using this as maybe an Example of a 40 I don't know let's say They're a wide receiver and they ran uh A 47540 right at an FBS camp but they're This really great player maybe they have The right height and size I'm like 475 Is going to be slow for Princeton slower For Princeton to your skill set will Have to completely be insanely off the Charart for for that to be something That they're going to look at and they Kind of always like well really I'm like Yeah really because there a value and You just said it you there's 20,000 kids

That you're go you're you and your staff Are going through um and I think that's An important thing like Competition I I think the mistake a lot Of people make and with FCS in general But definitely iy League okay is that For some reason that they can get away With not being I don't know quote un When we say the drop off this is what The drop off to me like let's say uh a a Receiver runs a 450 and that's like Quote unquote an FBS guy we're talking 455 at Princeton we're not talking 450 To 475 right yeah they don't they don't Grasp that that Gap right they think It's like oh I can just be so much Lesser of this because this is it's not Even close yeah almost every kid that We've recruited the last 15 years you Know just like you know you David like If I was hosting you you would have came To Princeton but you were between Scholarship and in Princeton right Almost every kid's turned down free to Do this right and that's you know the Kids that we are recruiting now I've Gone from being So uh and I love analytics I love Information I I but but it's just that It's information right like uh I want to See them compete I want to see them run Routes I want to see them do other Things I've gone from just oh my God a 45 better than a

452 who knows on that they're 17 years Old they're 16 years old like who's G to Reach their ability who's playing three Sports and hasn't you know specialized Who's you know we're doing a lot of Different data that goes into you know What's their age did they reclass did They not reclass like all those things Go into the dat That we're looking at because I use this And you know Derek do you have kids H About to turn my first one's about to Turn one she uh she'll turn one at the End of the week so I use this analogy Crawl walk jog Run yeah like they crawl different Points just because you crawl you're Recruiting you're in 10th Grade it's Crawling right now if you keep working And you know you'll hit your ability and It'll become a Sprint right so the first Person who crawls first or walks first You know having multiple kids didn't Make them the fastest when it became Time where it was real so they're gonna These are young kids like you see it Like the NFL draft they make a lot of Mistakes on this they're that football Is even harder because basketball at Least there's aaou there's these International tournaments we don't have That in football we're trying to compare A kid from milville high school to a kid From St Joe's Prep right we're playing

Two different milville is not playing a Great schedule um that way but we're Comparing apples and oranges in terms of Their competition who they play against And we're trying to see is the kid from Milville GNA be a late bloomer is he G To develop more and is the kid who's Already made right who uh and I'm not Saying this about mil this is other Shows I'm saying I know when I'm getting A kid like Dylan classy from Bergen Catholic his route running is going to Be exceptional he is a college level Football player because he had the same Stats as Andre oshas if you closed your Eyes said you know which guy's better And just all stats it's even they're two Of the best receivers to ever come Through Princeton or the ivy league on That the problem was Dylan couldn't run A fast 40 right Andre could and as you Go up levels especially as you get older The NFL um is going to judge more on that Number right that's meas that makes a Perfect sense and and yeah it's uh I'm Almost I'm curious too like does it so I Basic you answered it you have a a great Mix of kids that might be reclassed and You have a maybe a mix of kids that are On potential and are are are younger so And I think that's an important thing For parents to understand that you could Succeed either realm because we see so

Many and I'm sure you see it more and More so many kids reclass and that That's the only way to do it yeah Everybody's journey is Different on that we get less re like Kon Reed was I believe he turned he was 16 when he enrolled in Princeton and Turned 17 at that you know time but the Hard piece is we're dealing with really Academic kids right repeating eighth Grade academically is brutal for them Right for them Like what am I doing on that so we don't Get quite as many re classes it's coming More now Because um I don't want us you know I Remember when I got to Princeton and Lacrosse was committing eighth graders Um I hope football doesn't go to That because it's physical maturity you Need that to play football where Football separates itself right I think That's where football separates itself How many times do you see how do how Many times and what Dave and I talk About all the time how many times do you See that seventh or eighth grader who Dominates Middle School football and Then gets to high school and trickles Away and you never hear from him again Well puberty comes at different times And look we had to make a decision with Our daughter she would have been the Oldest or the youngest and my wife being

A high level educator girls typically Now I'm not talking about all of them There's exceptions the social experience For a girl being older is helpful we had To make the decision for our son in eth Grade and it would have been a waste of Time because he was not you know he's Good student right it would have made Sense there but Mercer County isn't Bergen County like what was he gonna Accomplish repeating eth grade right um He would he would have stabilized that Way as well so he went to college as a 17-year old that way you know it's going To be everybody's journey is going to qu Too yeah but but you don't need the Physical quarterback right right you Don't need to be able to do all the Running and the jumping and then stuff Like that that's more he's a left tackle If he's a left tackle like you know look There there's the Beast that goes to uh Whatever you know you name the school You know there's that Beast that goes Somewhere that's 14 years old and does All that most kids aren't 65 300 pounds And they're the rarest and that's what I Think people yeah and a lot of people Don't understand that because what's Coming across on social media this is The 3% of what actually happens you know And this is how they're basing all of Their decisions and doing all this and It's like un please understand this is

Like the very like these are the freaks Of the freaks you know what I'm saying Like oh you know he's like michah Parsons it's like Michael Parsons is a Freak among freaks don't compare Yourself to that kind of thing with a Kid in eth grade it's it's so difficult Everybody's journey is going to be Different and I've coached all the Different levels I've coached in the NFL But the level up until now I coached the Longest was division three I loved it Right I loved it our players had great Experiences I did it at four different Schools I absolutely loved it that's not A negative like I say that at Camp I Bring all the kids in and we have like The nescac and Hopkins and Carnegie M we Have these amazing academic Opportunities I said they're like me They're head coaches if they tap you on The back and say can I have your name And number that's a home run like they Are incredible so like division one you Know isn't everything right you can have An amazing if you love football you can Do it at different levels you know that Way absolutely and you know it's it's It's always and I think I've opened Dave's eyes a little bit to into that D3 World of how he you know he'd be talking About something at Yukon and I I'm like Da like we didn't do that division three He's like what do you mean I'm like I'm

Lucky I even got a travel suit like you Know what I'm saying like I'm lucky we Got you know one pair of gloves for an Entire season like all of these Intangibles that go into it like when You're at the division three level You're getting a kid that's literally There because he just loves to play Football that's like that's just the Basis of what it is they're not getting Scholarship money maybe they used Football to get into a higher academic You know division three program but the Football is like you know you got guys Coming from work you got guys coming you Know and it's just such a mix of people That that level just warrants just a lot Of different stuff that doesn't go into What it is but absolute great Experiences you know because I I started At Sacred Heart and you know family Issues took me home and you know I came Home to a division three program but I'll tell you one thing like there was a Lot of players that I played with at Montclair State that were way better Than at Sacred Heart that's not a knock On them that's just life situational Like I'm I got to stay home because of This or I need to go to Monclair because Maybe I didn't do the right things and Now I'm here but you know division three Football I think people get so incom in In in you know they get crazy about

Division one division two division three Like just go where you're wanted go Where you feel comfortable do what's Best for you and then ultimately like You're going to see success yeah Development isn't lineal either we're Looking at kids that are 16 and Projecting them at 2122 right and as I said the the NFL has Got way more Scouts than we have and They're making mistakes right it's not An easy thing to do and as you said if You know guys I coach that we wanted at Western Connecticut that's where they Fit that's where and we won a lot of Games their experiences were terrific And um you know I I I loved like that Was one of my favorite experiences Ever coaching yeah no it's it's this This has been incredibly I'll tell you Not just amazing having you on but Informative really like learning a lot About the the the process that you guys Go through and the things that you look At and obviously which has contributed To uh your success and the kids that you Coach is success and obviously a ton of Winning as well at Princeton like we to We talk so much about the other stuff at The end of the day you guys are doing a Ton of winning which is which is which Is you know uh ultimately helps you keep Your job Co you know coach as well but The process leads to that right you guys

Know absolutely process pie if the Process piece isn't right there's not Consistency in the Routine um it's chaos right and Absolutely uh it's hard to win when You're doing it hopefully in a good Way way you know the right way but you Have no chance when when you're not Doing it the right way so that that Piece is so important and you guys do so Much for the good of football and the Good of athletes like young athletes Right right like it's really you know The these kids have ability to to grow Because you guys sacrifice a lot of time In your life to do this a a absolutely No it's been it's been great and you Know I we we enjoy it we love it we we Have a ton of fun you know talking to Great coaches like yourself and and and Really like learning we learn we learn I Was say we we come out of it with we Learn so much you know it's like uh it's Like uh getting a PhD for us as we talk To you guys and really uh you know learn From your experiences and and the things That you guys have done well things you Made mistakes on and we're hoping that We could help the kids the co any Coaches that listen to it who are on Their Journey you know any kids that are Looking to get recruited the parents to Help them understand it like I any kids I talk to I said hey we're

You know I'm going to be on with the Prince and Coach like a lot of the Questions that you might have right now I would say about half of them are going To get answered in the in the next hour Or so because uh if you listen to it Because it's it it's we're we're talking To you guys as as the way that we we Think about things as coaches and and And trying to help you know athletes That we work with so I can't thank you Enough for coming on Coach you've always Been great to me um you know it's always Been a pleasure you know talking to and And and and working with you and um uh I Hope you get to enjoy the rest of your Week and your weekend and uh maybe maybe Get a a couple seconds to take a nice Deep breath and hang out with some of Your friends you know well do really Appreciate you guys thank you have a Great day apprciate it have a good day y That was fantastic fantastic tough man He's I mean I love it I just think You it's just so good like guys that he Knows where he's at he knows what it Takes because he is a Princeton guy Right like for me if I'm Princeton like That's the best hire I could have made a Guy who understands the school he Understands the measurables the Intangibles all of the stuff that goes Into ivy league yet he's you know Willing to you know tweak some things

Here or there to kind of adapt with the Times and make it you know what it is For you know make it more appealing to Guys to get into the school and whatnot But you know he knows at the end of the Day like look there are certain things And and I would love to have certain Players come here but if you don't take Care of business and don't do your part Like you're just not coming to Princeton Right like he just you just have to Understand the kid that you're Recruiting and that kid himself also has To understand like Princeton is Different right like that's part of this Process like you you're not going to go There just because you know it's Football like you're going there for Other reasons and you need to be Prepared for that too right because I Think a lot of guys just see oh I have An opportunity to go play at Princeton Like I love that he said do your Research cuz half these times we got Kids going to camps that have no like They couldn't even tell you what level The schools that there are at the camp Are do your research it's not hard now To go online and look at stuff and pull It up on your phone it takes five Minutes and now you're informed and now You understand like oh I don't really Want to go to a place like that or maybe I do like who knows do your research man

It's not hard I I think the insight as Far as what you know Princeton is about And the culture and and um and and the Community of it I think is is really I Mean I love that when I go there go There to watch a game or or sometimes we Go there to eat you know because we're Not far from where we are tell you like I love that I love that aspect it's why I chose Sacred Heart because of that Right it was a smaller School Everybody's on campus like coming from a Group one where graduated with a hundred Kids like I love that aspect of it That's small everybody knows everybody You're in that whatever like That's we're in this great debate on This uh on on the yuk like the the group That I do Yukon husky like uh we started That huddle huddle husky huddle with and Uh we talk about how wetchler Camp Wetchler stadium is in Harford and we're Like it's not there's no appeal it's Great but it's such a it's like a it's Like a sin that it's not it's it's the Same thing with like you know the UN Campus you know like the University of Miami those guys play at you know Whatever it's called down there now like Yeah that's it's 30 to 45 minutes from The campus like right right right Whereas the Orange Bowl used to be one Of the most iconic HomeField advantages In the freaking country right yeah like

Notre Dame Stadium you walk across Campus to get the Notre that's what Makes it cool yeah that it's the same Thing that makes princess cool like it's All right there like you're if you're And the went I went to the University of Florida like you're walking across Campus and boom here's a statue of Spurrier in the swamp you're like dude This is awesome absolutely all right let Let's let's run let's get off here and Then we'll uh that was excellent man Great guy great great great podcast We'll be back I think Friday I think so We'll we'll we'll jump off here and and We'll see you next time

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Dave Schuman

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