The Harvard Gameplan for Success with Legendary Former HC of Harvard Tim Murphy
53 min readThe Harvard Gameplan for Success with Legendary Former HC of Harvard Tim Murphy
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Welcome Derek again from sunny Florida How many more days you down there uh I'm Home tomorrow late late night tomorrow Oh late night tomorrow okay that's great That's great we have a phenomenal guest On today a legend literally a living Legend in in the in the football a Coaching space and he was a head coach For many years at Harvard um he's won 10 Ivy League championships he had three Undefeated Seasons uh he he got there in 94 and up until Coach orage taking over Uh this upcoming season he was the head Coach at Harvard longest tenur coach as Well there uh at the time uh the Accomplishments are Unbelievable um the number of winning Seasons is unbelievable the the number Of men he's touched and helped out over Years obviously not just at the great Institution of Harvard academically but Uh obviously on the football field as Well uh with without further Ado let's Bring on Coach Murphy coach what's going On how you doing fellas coach thanks for Taking the time man really appreciate it My pleasure coach it's it's phenomenal To have you on for for uh the people Outside of the the the coaches bace um Who who may not know about uh obviously Your story career um G give us the whole Backdrop how you you even got to to Harvard and and uh that whole story and Then obviously Co cover your career as
Well well first of all it's a great Country I'm not sure I could spell Harvard in the eighth grade fellas I was The uh first and only one of my family To ever go to college and if it wasn't For my high school football coach John Montoy my high school basketball coach Dick arietta I probably would not have Gone to college I remember very vividly My junior year after my junior year of Football my head coach coach montoi and My basketball coach dick aretta they uh Cornered me in the hallway my when I Described it to my wife she said I think That was an Intervention and they said hey uh you Know what are you doing you know when You graduate from uh from from high School and I said I don't know I'll Probably join the Marines and they kind Of looked at each other and said no That's not happening and you know being You know a 16-year-old kid who didn't Know anything I said the hell of that I'm I'm joining the Marines and they Said shut up son you going to college They walked away in the rest of his History um and certainly if I had joined The Marines that would have been a very Noble thing to do I've always had great Respect for the military but having Grown up in a family where no one had Been to college um you know my coaches Really had a huge impact on my life high
School and college and it's uh I think It's it's a tribute to them um that I Somehow managed you know to make them Proud and go on to play college football And and go from there I uh played at Springfield College division two school At the time had a great Collegiate Experience my coach hoe vandery who Passed a year ago uh was a great leader Great motivator and uh really cared and The really cared part was why I got into Coaching and uh You know it's interesting how things Work um he made me become a student as Well he had been from a little Ivy and And he's one of those guys say hey You're a lot smarter than you think you Are I ended up getting a master's degree While playing as a you know as a college Kid in the first year you were allowed To do that because I had an extra year Of Eligibility because an injury year And uh helped me get my first job at Brown as a ga um I remember very Vividly you know I was so so Appreciative to you know get a job like That out of high school not that not That it paid much I I made $600 for the Year I kid you not and you know this was Uh you know you know 1990 this wasn't 1890 um I worked in a factory in the Offseason I worked at graveyard shift in The off season from uh uh 1 p.m. to 6:00 A.m. would come home home get a couple
Hours sleep come back um I got I had a Better job at Brown my second year and Then I had my first job at Lafayette as A full-time coach I was there one year And then through buddy tens who was uh As you guys know was the great Dartmouth Coach uh buddy and I grew up together uh We were best friends for literally half A century um our friendship started with A collision at home plate in an Allstar Uh a little league allstar game by the Way I was safe Although he he would never agree to that But uh you know had a chance to go to Boston University with Rick Taylor one Of the really outstanding coaches of his Time went on to become the ad at the University of Cincinnati and the ad at Northwestern um the ad at Cincinnati Part Was um buddy got the head coaching job As a very young guy at the University of Maine uh he asked me to go with him as a Coordinator I did and all through that Time in college coaching in my 20s I Kept taking courses because they were Free you were at schools take courses For free and I ended up miraculously Getting into two top 10 graduate Business Schools I did not apply to Harvard Business School I thought that Would have been ridiculous um but at the Time I did get into uh the the Kellogg School at Northwestern which was number
Two in the country and it's funny how Things work in life because when I was a Coordinator at Maine I had actually Tendered my resignation because I was Going to Northwestern to get my MBA at Uh age 29 and uh it's funny how things Work about six months five months after I had made that commitment um in the Early spring four months after buddy Gets a job at Dartmouth And uh University of Maine up and offers Me the head coaching job and I was a bit Conflicted because I'd worked you know So many years you know was assistant Coach getting you know taking courses For free to get into a good B school and I said okay I'll I'll do this for a year This is the conversation I was having With my then girlfriend who became my Wife my wife Martha um and then I'll get This out of coaching thing out of my System and I'll go to business School a Year later and you know the people in Northwestern were great they said well You're not exactly a young you know Business school student but okay we'll Hold this spot for you for a year which I was eternally grateful for that was uh That was 37 years ago And still haven't got this college Football thing out of my system uh so Went from uh we were fortunate to have a You know we we did a really good job we Had a at the University of Maine we had
Our first ever IV uh excuse me make that Yankee Conference Championship you you Guys remember the name Yankee conference I yes know you was in it and uh know had A chance to go to Cincinnati and um you Know I realized very quickly being at UC why you know why I had gotten the job Nobody wanted it it was um it was a a Train wreck in those days uh when I got There um couple things happened one uh They were very down in their numbers Because they had a lot of kids just Quit two they had Uh about three months after I got the Job they were hit by the NCAA and we Lost 18 future Scholarships uh because of um things That had happened with the previous Staff um about a month after that Nippard stadium was condemned we had no Place to play so we had to play for the First two years we had to play in a uh a Baseball stadium which was like a ghost Town and it was tough um you know we Were arguably the worst team in America When the first year we ranked I think 122 in the country out of 123 major College teams um but we hung in there I Had a great ad and Rick Taylor who had Been my boss when I was the offensive Line coach at at Boston University they Stuck with us and by you know by the Year five we had vastly improved and we Ended up actually number 25th in the
Nation uh my last year there and you Know how it goes fellas if you're Fortunate to be in a program that has Had that kind of rise and that kind of Success you know people have this idea Of where you're going next yeah well I Guarantee you starting with my ad Rick Taylor people were shocked when I took a 50% pay cut to go to Harvard yep and People said you're crazy uh it's what Are you doing you could do this you do That and right there were a couple of Things one like I said I was the first And only one in my family uh to go to College I wanted our children uh you Know to understand the power of Education my mom was terminally ill by Herself Um and the people at Harvard when I Interviewed you know I thought I I'll Take the interview but this is not Something I'm seriously interested in But right you know me meeting Billy Clary the legendary hockey coach and Then ad um meeting Bill Fitz Simmons Legendary guy in admissions Jack Reen Who basically ran the school I said if These are the type of folks that are Running this place count me in and Obviously um less was more at least for Our family uh financially maybe but you Know we had an opportunity to build a Program um we took a program over that Was really struggling I think by
1996 they had lost seven they had had a Winning season in seven years and I Think we went on from there to have um I Think 20 State straight something like 20 straight uh non- losing seasons and Just been a great experience on many Levels yeah I mean the the the career That you had is amazing and I remember Getting recruited that was one of the Reasons why I was curious when we talked Offline about when when you when you Came there because the shift in the Mentality of Harvard from when I was Coming up um in recruiting to to what You did and what you really improved Upon there um and taking your division One experience and how you built that up And you you know translated right to Harvard um and had you know great Success I mean success they probably Beyond their wildest dreams when they Hired You% no doubt and so I I remember my Recruit my recruiting process and almost Every Ivy had had uh offered me but Harvard came in and obviously it was it Was it was such an like it was Harvard You know so I was obviously uh very Interested and the Harvard uh recruiter At the time came and said we need to Know if you want to go to Harvard right Now and this was you know back in the Day when you used to you got offered in Senior year still you know and but it
Was pretty early and and he said it to Me I think it might have been September Like first game first or second game he Had come in there um and uh he mentioned That to me and said that to me and I Said coach I you know I just we just I Just started to talk to all these Schools I have no no idea and and Obviously Harvard is an amazing place But I you know I was a young 17-year-old You know I I really didn't didn't I was Just kind of learning the whole process And um he said okay thank you he's like And and he left and I never heard from Harvard again and that was one of the Reason I was curious because um I was The way that you built it up I knew that It could not have Been your your staff that was in there At the time and it's so interesting to Hear and it's hard for me to remember Way back then what the record was even Of Harvard you know but it it makes a Lot of sense when you when you go back In time and how the mindset and the Shift of everything that you did at Harvard just like you did at Cincinnati Um changed everything there and it's It's Amazing um what you did I mean not only Did you obviously choose uh M maybe Arguably a much more sustainable Lifestyle obviously being able to be the Head coach at Harvard um because you
Were there so long um but it's what you Did accomplishment wise and all the Players that you worked with and I've Met met some of your players over the Years in different capacities in in the Football industry you know the owner the Owner of Stack Sports was one of your Was one of your running backs um yeah so You know I did business with him in the Early years of our camps when we were Running showcases and camps and you know And and he was a brilliant guy I mean Tough tough guy too tough guy brilliant Guy um you know and and it's it's just a Tribute to what what you you you've done Over those years quick first question Really Is it had to be very difficult to to get The blueprint at Cincinnati right to Really kind of build that up and did you You know H how did you as a young coach Really establish that blueprint and did You use some of those things from that Blueprint at Harvard yeah I don't think there's any Question you know even at Cincinnati you Know it started with you know you've got To recruit a village you know assistant Coaches first and foremost got to Recruit a great staff we had a great Staff um many of which who ended up in The NFL uh two you know I've had two of My former coaches become head coaches in The NFL John harbar still doing an
Amazing job U you know with with that Team um but with the ultimate Human Resources industry and if you recruit Great assistant coaches guys that are Really going to roll roll up their Sleeves go to work every day guys that Are going to be able to connect with uh Student athletes you know guys that are Going to be good Recruiters in the best Possible context um and that's the where We've had success everywhere whether was At Maine whether it's Cincinnati or Harvard I think it was pretty much the Same blueprint it's all about the people It's hard to quantify those things um But we wanted High character kids High Character coaches um didn't care whether You're black white rich poor Catholic or Baptist you know those are things that Distinguish us but you know we're one Team one family and developing that Culture and pretty much even though Obviously Harvard is a lot harder to get Into per se than the University of Cincinnati or the University of Maine Right that's what we did it was all About people and those people eventually Make you look good those people Eventually um transcend whatever people Might think their physical limitations Are and you know I remember my first uh Recruiting class I recruited a kid out Of Minnesota named Matt Burke for Harvard Matt was not highly
Recruited ended up Being ended up being an all NFL football player um you know Ryan Fitzpatrick you know was not heavily Recruited remember being in his house And in in uh Arizona and walking out of There saying this kid's the real deal I'm not sure how I know that but you Know that's a kind of instinct I felt I Had in terms of character and all of Those guys sort of transcended what People thought their physical Limitations Were Kyle yek Kyle yek from a small School in rural Ohio um who's been you Know another you know multi-year allpro Um you know first when harbs recruited Him um to go play for him and then when He signed a an excellent contract Obviously with the the 49ers you know those kids everybody Knows they can they can really play even Though they were not highly recruited But there're such great people that they They maximize those opportunities to to Play at the highest level well I think That's one of the big things that you Changed too you made you made Harvard Not just a destination obviously for for Great athletes who are fantastic Students but players who had higher Aspirations and and um and and and they Figured out that they could take those Higher aspirations from Harvard which
Was a really really huge thing and I Think it changed you know you know some Of the things you did that really Changed the way that um NFL teams looked At the IV League you know obviously Fitzpatrick is one of the biggest people In that aspect um being so successful in The NFL coming from Harvard and having Such a long career that more and more They looked at players from the ivy League they started to understand that Th some of those players were division One BigTime players or could become big Time division one players but chose Academics as a big part of what they Wanted to do T talk about how in in the Recruiting process you really balance That with some of those really good Players well with every kid we recruit We saying hey you know if you're coming To Harvard hey you know you may not end Up in the NFL but you're gonna end up With tremendous Opportunities it's going to for your Future family it's going to be a great Opportunity to help them be successful In life as well uh and I think the Reality is as we had more and more kids Um you know either get drafted or signed Free agent contracts I think it at one Time um you know we had about 14 15 guys In the league at the same time we ended Up having close to 40 kids who signed NFL contracts um but those kids became
Sort of walking TV Billboards people say Wow that kid's from Harvard and it gave Us an opportunity to maybe have an Opportunity to get better players make Them understand that even in the NFL What's the average career David probably 4.3 years yeah maybe um and again so You're G to end up working for 50 years After that and I think the combination Of all those things having success Recruiting the right type of High Character kids certainly was the reason And the way that we were fortunate to Become successful on a more consistent Basis right because you could definitely You could look at it right and you're Talking to a high school kid and you're Trying to you know explain to them that Hey coming here right is going to Benefit you well long term well beyond What you can even imagine right now and I could imagine it being difficult Though speaking to those you know 16 17 18 year old kids trying to push this on Them and say Hey you know like your Future is going to be so much brighter If you come here and do this when in Reality you know they want to go do the You know to a bigger school or the party School or you know it's just hard for Them to grasp that you know I would Assume that you know the approach was Probably get the parents right because The parents were probably always on
Board and then have them push your kid To go but I definitely could see that But you overcame that and I I think That's just phenomenal well to your Point Derek um I re I really enjoyed Recruiting visits I really enjoyed um Going out and getting in the family Getting into the living room uh to make That connection um and I think for a lot Of people understanding my very humble Background um they could see sort of Both sides of things absolutely uh but No question about it you know when You're you know maybe a 46 year old Parent it's comp compared to a 16 17 Year old kid right they certainly Understand the end game the long game And uh There's less and less as you know There's less and less home visits these Days because things are happening so Quickly it's it's incredible but that Was the key key key for us uh I think we Recruited during our 10e kids from 41 or 42 different states right we didn't get Anybody out of the dtas we didn't get Anybody out of uh Um um now we had kids out of Hawaii uh We didn't have a kid out of Alaska we Didn't have a kid out of the dtas but That was about it and um those things Certainly helped us and I can like That's just another part of the Harvard Program itself is you know a lot of
People think that the Ivy Leagues are Northeast based and yeah geographically Absolutely but you're also on a national Level you know there are kids that are Going to come to you from West Coast or You know the Midwest or whatnot and That's just another kind of ball that You have to juggle in terms of hey this Could be a really good player for us but Can they come to Harvard and succeed in This different type of geographical Location but to your point the the Visits the campus visits ended up being Crucial because for so many kids who Took the visits you know they thought Our kids were going to have three heads Or something like that and you know when They walked out of there 48 hours later You know they had already connected Y and if these kids had been Blindfolded and you know brought into The official visit you know they Wouldn't know if they were at rugers They didn't know if they were at uh you Know Ohio State or someplace else Because the kids were real student Athletes but they were regular kids from Very very different backgrounds and Obvious obviously very very Diverse right there's no doubt I I'm Curious when when you took over Initially and and Through the Years um Were there kind of a progression of Things that you had to get the
Administration on board with with like Maybe modernizing facilities um evolving Things from a recruiting standpoint or Admission standpoint what were some of Things that you had to do over those Years to really kind of keep evolving The Harvard Program well I think the big one was Just um to make sure admissions was on Board my point being that uh you know if They told you a kid's not going to fit In here they were usually right um and Bill Fitz Simmons you know which is an Amazing guy I think he's you know he's Still probably the oldest and longest Tenur um you know guy in terms of Admissions you know he had been a you Know he had been a uh an athlete you Know he had been a hockey player and he Had been a uh you know workingclass kid And so he understood the context of what We were talking about and it was like Anything else okay they took some Chances early on on some kids that they May not have taken previously and those Kids did it incredibly well which Obviously gave you an opportunity to get You know a lot more credibility and for The admissions people to work with you And trust you and at the end of the day Today the reality statistically was you Know Harvard graduates 99% of its kids On time well we graduated 99% of our Football players on time so from that
Standpoint um we had a great Relationship because we trusted each Other I think the second thing is what Really helped us in recruiting is you Don't have to beat kids over the head That Harvard's a good School but I would always say to a kid DK as an example i' say hey DK who's got The largest division one Athletic Program on planet Earth and inevitably They would say one of three schools they Would say Ohio State Michigan or Alabama And I said I would say no it's harv and They they get a laugh out of that and I Said no it really is Harvard go coach What are you talking about I said you Know we've got over 40 division one Athletic it's almost twice as many as Any school in the Big 10 or the SEC so Do the math we have more recruited Division one athletes on our campus than Any place on planet Earth and we use That obviously to our advantage but Admissions really appreciated those kids They were not recruiting those kids Because they're athletes they were Recruiting those kids because they were High character kids who managed to be Successful On right and I think that that and that Was a win for you right taking that risk And now you're able to kind of move Ahead and say look we took a risk here It worked out we can now let's go do it
Again well I think that's also a really A great thing with the number of student Athletes on campus which I didn't know I Didn't know that fact um but that they Felt comfortable right so this was a Place that was friendly to athletes that Was it was there were going to be other People like them that are playing other Sports that they can know and and I Think that's a that's a really really Great recruiting tool that you Identified because H you know athletes Always that is always a comfort level That they have oh there's the soccer Team or the or or the basketball team or The or the r track field whatever it is Sportswise those are athletes and the Fact that there's so many athletes on Campus right it's it's not just Mark Zuckerberg who's absolute genius right On campus it's also it's also athletes Like themselves who are Exceptionally smart and want and really Good athletes and want to get a Harvard Education so it's it's really amazing Tool I I'm curious as to um as to like How you've seen recruiting evolve Because you've you especially at at Harvard um not just when you were at Maine in Cincinnati and and you know Going back to when you were playing at Springfield but really those years at Harvard because it has changed so much Recruiting
It it's it's mindboggling just when you Think it can't change more it just Continues to change talk about the Things that you've seen and maybe The Good the Bad and the Ugly of it in in Recruiting well Dave to your points I Mean when you you're at any school for 30 years you know you transition okay Like anything else in life in football As in life the only constant is change And I think like anything else you have To adapt you know whether you're in a Fortune 500 company or whether you're at Um Ohio State or whether you're at at Harvard in the ivy league you've got to Continue to adapt and we did continue to Adapt we were always trying to build a Better mouse trap if you will we would Make sure that we were tried to be ahead Of the curve on so many things but if You look at now to your point of where College football was when I was the Coach at the University of Cincinnati to Where college Football is now well you got to go Really deep into the weeds because a Agree or disagree with this in the NFL okay there is parody why is there Parody Well everybody's got the same Salary cap next year it's $244 million So everybody has the same amount of Money to spend okay if you have success Let's say you're the Kansas City Chiefs And you have success and win a Super
Bowl What happens do you get the first round Draft pick no you go to the bottom you Go to the bottom of it so there's a way To keep Parody If you look at it now and this is Just one one person's opinion when People ask me what is going on in the NCAA I said it's simple and they go what Do you mean it's simple I said it's Simple it is absolutely positively Professional football but with no rules And they laugh I go no there's no rues You look at if they at least had the NFL Model there'd be some Equity correct and That's why you see so many of the halves Now they have to be in either the Big 10 Or they have to be in the SEC and what's Going to happen to some of those leagues Without those schools right the rich Will get richer it will become those two Powerful conferences And and it's it it's really in my humble Opinion it's such a shame it's just Crazy it's coming from a uh and Especially not to cut you off coach but Especially coming to from a place like The ivy league where geographically You're all in the same kind of like Those now you see the Big 10 and you Know you got USC UCLA you know you're Stretching all the way to the West Coast And you know look I get it and and I Totally understand it but that doesn't
Mean that I have to like it by any means You know I I just think that those you Know those rivalries that come from you Know the Steady Eddy of the same type of Conference I mean I always compare it to Like the Big East in basketball and that Kind of you know what I mean the ACC in Basketball college basketball but you Look at these programs now and like you Said everybody is just trying to get Into those places where the rich can Continue to get richer right no question About it and if you look at the NCAA You know they probably couldn't have a Better commissioner than uh you know Former Massachusetts governor and by the Way Harvard athlete Charlie Baker Tremendous human being extremely bright Guy everybody respects the heck out of Him but the reality is that the NCAA Needs the SEC and the Big 10 more than The Big 10 and the SEC need the NCAA 100 That is definitely the tail wagon the Dog and uh y just crazy I mean if they Just went to more of an NFL model Exactly people like let's say USC would Not have to migrate essentially to the Midwest and the East Coast literally Yeah and you you look at UCLA USC Rivalry and those rivalries are going to Really sort of disintegrate yep and just Everything about the Rose Bowl in General is kind of going to like you Know what I mean because that you know
Pack 12 pack 10 against the big like That's now you're going to see that Regular season you know it's like it's Ah you know and I just like you know Texas is now you know part of the SEC And it's just like it's like we said It's just the rich are going to continue To get richer and as long as conferences Like that they want those schools to Come in because it adds to their revenue Right and then you know the the power Five is now the is now the big four and It's we're it's just it's all over the Place something has to be done I think It will be done I just don't know how Long it's going to take to get it done Well to your point let's say you have an Opport in terms of being the ww west Eric let's talk about if you're a Mid-range School in the Big 10 or in the SEC and you happen to by great coaching Um by doing a great job recruiting Developing players you happen to have a Terrific year and you go I don't know Nine and Two what does that do for you Right all it means is someone's going to Steal your someone's gonna Ste steal Your players and and now instead of Having you put all the work in you got It and instead of having to recruit Let's say 16 players now you have to Recruit 36 players and it's it is it's Out of control I don't think it's
Sustainable for the what you know for The national institutions of the game And uh yeah and what are we teaching our Kids you know oh yeah when it gets tough I can just go wherever I want right you Got Itone there that wants me to do that Correct and you see it in the video Games they play right so now the NCA Game right Derek and I was I was we were Talking about the other day the other Day um you could it basically like you Do well like the players these kids Create they get offered to transfer and Then they transfer again the video game The you know is basically promoting it Within uh because it's just mirroring What's going on right so um because That's all that's all those games do They mirror what's going on so it's Really really interesting but all the Players playing the young kids the the That's what they do they're playing it In their locker room playing it and they Think that that's a normal thing they Start to think that that's a normal Thing and it's it's uh and and you know I think as far as like geographically I Almost feel like in the long run they're Basically going to take all those big Four or whatever they you know whatever It ends up being and then Eventually create them as one gigantic Superc conference and then just separate
Them back out again by region because I Think you're right it's not how is that Long run sustainable for Stanford to Play in the ACC right I mean Cal to play In the ACC um USC USC and UCLA obviously Have gigantic budgets but like over time They're other athletes they may lose in Other sports you that's what that's the Concern I think is right that's how I Look at everybody obviously wants to Look at football basketball as the two Majors like that's really people think That that's just it like what about all These other you know what I mean sports That now you know you got USC traveling To ruter in the middle of a semester you Know for whatever sport like nobody Takes that stuff into account or even Thinks about that because you know Football rules the roost for the most Part and then what are we teaching young People we're teaching when okay you when You make a commitment to people or an Institution or the person you marry or Fill in the blank right it's meaningless Right not mean but um you know we're Letting people off the hook by having That behavior and I just think overall And I know I'm old school fellas but I Just think overall that this is this is Not the right way to go it's not it's Not all it does is make these kids now Football players for a student athlet Second even at some of those really good
Academic schools in both those in both Those leagues absolutely meaningless on Both sides too right so it's like uh the Co a lot of the coaches at those levels Are forced into a situation where They're doing things that are always on The kind of on the borderline right they Rot in the fine line of whether it's Right or wrong kind of deal like we know It's you know let's put like this we Know right and wrong but whether it's Legal or not legal they're riding that Fine line they're always just looking For on the right side of it but the Because of what has to happen and then The players learn that too so it's not On purpose by the co like it's kind of Like one of these things where they're They're being forced keep up with the Joneses yeah well who right how who who Who's going to succeed in that Environment right like it becomes one of Those things that if you want to be Really successful in that coaching Environment and in that playing Environment you kind of almost are Constantly playing a game right like With people's lives crazily enough right You're playing a game with you and your Life their life everybody and everybody Associate with the programs and I think You know obviously it's Formed uh me and dere have talked about This like almost like an NFL structure
On both sides where you have the Coaching structure and then you have the Player Personnel structure which has It's the only way that it has a chance To be sustainable to keeping those Worlds a little they're always Intertwined somewhat but like having two Kind of units in that standpoint which Obviously becomes a half and half knots Too right because un if you're Ohio State Alabama Michigan you know the big You can afford to create bigger St and Do that stuff right can Georgia State Afford it can can um right well North Texas ever you know what I mean like Those a Kent State right I mean even a Vanderbilt where you know you got your High academic standards but like SEC Like it's like I look at it I mean it's Just like South Carolina like you know Schools of those Natures that are kind Of right there in that middle area where You know one or two players staying Another year could change the game could Changed the entire Outlook of the Program and now these guys are just you Know hey I'm going to go here hey I can Get a better nil deal here and it's like You said coach what are we really Teaching the Youth of everything is that Hey you're just G to run for money or You're just gonna when things get hard Just go and do whatever and I try and Tell parents this like you know all the
Time you know the decision used to be Hey I'm going to make the the next you Know the decision based you know 4 years For the next 40 years and now guys are Thinking oh I'll go here for a year and Then I'll go here Year and that like That's already in their mind and planned Out before they even get to College Which to me is just just shows exactly What the world we're living in now and That to me like something has to change Who would have thought that we would say Now for college football at the highest Level if we could just become more like The NFL model Right that's and and and that's crazy And that's what has to happen for them To have stability which is Crazy minimum just the start of It you know I mean because and and and Obviously the timeline right you got a Transfer portal opening up while guys Are trying to compete in bowl games I Mean how do you just you know you know Dave and I have talked the ivy league so Here's the thing thate I think it's Really helped the IV League get better Players over you know as you keep going Into it far farther and farther because That's not the model of the ivy league And and and um you know you if you're Going to the ivy league your objective Is to get a degree from there not to Like transfer out and the only players
That ever transfer out are going to be You know those grad transfer players so Which I also think is a great model too Because you know and that's I think That's a selling point as well but I'm Just saying like that's also a selling Point you know hey look man like you can Come here for four years get your degree At an at an Ivy League school and then Look if you're good enough I'll let I'll You know I will help you get to that Fifth year at a at a at a bigger Institution where now maybe you could Make a little bit of money before you go And get drafted right but that all like That process itself it's not hey I'm G To develop you for a year and then go Right that's come get your education First then I can help you and then with The success because I've seen a lot of Those Brad transfers a lot of those guys Come from the ivy league and I think it Just kind of puts a stamp a stamp on hey Like you know we here have a have some Good football too that can produce some Highlevel NFL guys at the same time but They're also like this guy already has His degree from Princeton or from Harvard or from Yale or one of these Institutions that nobody around the Country is going to touch that no matter What well to your point um I have been Completely on board with that to the Point where we've had kids um that have
Been starters in the Big 10 the SEC the The pack 10 the ACC in every major Conference over the last five years we Have had starters there they have gotten A free U master's degree let's say in MBA they played another year they've had A great experience and you know that Actually has been a boon for the uh for The league and certainly for Harvard boy Uh and next year have a kid who's going To start for uh Florida State start for Louisville and start for UVA is just a Couple of examples Jake rzy uhh Thor Griffith and Tyler Neville you know Three great kids are going on to get a Graduate degree and and even when a kid Might have had an extra year maybe Because of an injury or covid they'd Asked me coach what should I do I said You gotta take you got to take this Opportunity absolutely and I think That's what a re like you know I say Real Coach does but a coach that cares About his players like Unconditionally will be will have those Hard conversations well the open the Honesty I think that's really where Coaching you know you could separate Yourself as a coach is I think those the The ability to have those hard Conversations with players and sometimes Have to tell them things that they don't Want to hear um I think that's just what Separates you know a good coach from a
Great coach Yeah and I think the the grad transfer Thing is so was the original you know The original free transfer was the grad Transfer right you I was always thought Hey this is great guy guy's there for Four years he gets red shirt at a Division one school or or he goes to Harvard and and and he sits a year and And he graduates in four and he has an Extra year of Eligibility right or he Goes to any one of these schools and he Has extra year of Eligibility because of Him graduating School four years right Or three years whatever it is right uh I Always thought that that was phenomenal That to me was transfer that has a huge Advantage for the player for life Because now he is getting a grad degree And you know what if he is going to Maybe a better quote unquote football School he gets to enhance his skills he Gets to get a grad degree and that's What the that grad transfer the beauty Of it right and then the old transfer Rule was basically you move down a level If you wanted the play right away or you Had to sit out a year which made it a Little made you think about whether you Wanted to leave and I think just the Fact that a player has to and and I'm Not saying that's how it has to be but You know a modern version of that would Be better but um but just having the
Players have the time to think about Okay can I develop here not just jump in The portal and leave and test the waters Constantly but just to have them think About it and then you know I always Think about this all the time every Freshman that goes to college right Every almost every freshman unless he's So Mature is homesick when he goes to College everybody they they they they They may be down on the depth chart Right or they were a prize Prospect Let's say at the highest level and maybe They're two or three on the depth chart Right a four or five star quote unquote Kid is is not starting right away but He's two or three well nowadays those Players immediately think I got to get Out of here I don't like that much yeah I don't like the school that much I Don't know that may people guy ly to me And and that thought process is so toxic To me that that that thought process Yeah there's a word there's a word for That David they have through no fault of Their own they're now mercenaries yep You're a Hired Hand All the athletes now are Hess like in The Revolutionary War you Know they are they're they're they're They're paid to fight and and you know And I also think that your point about Like how do you developing programs
Every year you have to constantly Develop programs every year and figure Out um uh you know after years of Coaching High School football I'm Coaching uh youth kids right and and It's hard with youth parents with if Their kid isn't playing that much right Or or or he he's not there yet Skill-wise and having just those Conversations I was think how do you Have a conversation with the guy who's Third on your dep chart okay he's Clearly unhappy at this point and he Dips his toe in the water and it it Could be no fault of your own as a coach You may be doing everything you can you May be communicating he may be getting It from the outside he may always coming Outside factors now with social media There's so many of these you know Trainers and lers and you know quote Unquote Street AG these guys have their you know youth Coach from they're human beings though I'm saying they're human beings and they Get you you're a kid you're a human Being you're in college and your Girlfriend breaks up with you that's a Reason you could go in a jump jump in a Transfer portal you're third on a depth Shart that's a reason you could jump in A transfer portal you're struggling in a Couple of of subjects okay and you don't Feel like you're getting the help
Immediately for reason right you could Jump in there's so many re things it's So hard for a coach and the player side To manage all this stuff because you're Getting all these forces and you know I I I we've talked to a lot of coaches and Mo almost all the coaches we've talked To have been phenomenal phenomenal guys And I I you know they communicate more Than they ever have but no matter how Much you do you're never inside the head Of another person right so so when There's no Parameters per se I mean there limited Parameters it's very hard when somebody A a young man 1920 you know I like I Like to call him a kid still but you Know I guess you can't call him a kid to Me that when I see a 1920 Ro to me it's It's a it's a it's a it's a young adult Right still on the borderline of being a A kid and that mindset of oh it's not Working because I was there as a player I remember my freshman year I remember It I I remember thinking why am I not Playing right now I'm I think I'm better Than this guy um oh I got hurt coach Doesn't want to talk to me anymore right It's not they didn't want to talk to me It's just he had a lot of other things To worry about right and you start to Think about these things as a player and If I had a transfer portal as a this is I'm just being honest with how I was
Back then at 18 years old if I had Transfer portal another school said to Me hey you could come here and play Right away and blah blah blah blah There's a chance I would have definitely Looked at it and you know what my career End up being great I learned a ton of Things from having to stick it out right And having to stick it out going through A coaching change which was tough okay Being loved to not being loved to having To be loved again figuring out what the Coach needed for me to be a a player That was on the field and those are real Life skills that TR which happen in life Now what are you going to do you know The first second your your your wife Gets mad at you you're going to up and Leave you know and believe me it's gonna Be a lot worse with your wife she's Upset with you than it is when your Coach is upset with you well to your Point fellas and we're all saying the Same thing you know we're SPO we're Supposed to have learn Life Lessons Through playing college football now the Lessons are hey when the going gets Rough just just Uh get a Divorce you know I heard baseball uh and And I didn't know this because I watched The College World Series and I heard Baseball as as much of an issue it is in Football and and basketball baseball
It's a Monumental issue and I and I've Watched a bunch of things on it because Those guys are not on full scholarship Either so you know they're they're Getting you know they're getting 25% Plus you know a lot and we're talking Now when they see those nil deals They're like running well that's that's Exactly what's happening so because some Of them so if I'm getting a 50% Scholarship at I don't know let's say Tennessee and I have a great year and Tennessee doesn't come up with an an nil Deal for me that covers the rest of my Education and let's say I don't know LSU Does they go over there so they're still Only paying they still have a 50% Scholarship but the nil is covering so These things are going going on in Baseball that are like because you could You could have a quote unquote walk on But give him an nil deal for the full Amount which is the issue right now and That's why I think you're seeing you Know it just came out a couple days ago And I'm sure you saw a coach that They're going to increase the Scholarship limit you know for football It's going 85 to 105 I mean I think They've already done that because They're paying Guys coach you took the that's already What I'm talking about the the pwo world Is now non-existent like hey man we're
Going to label you a pwo but this nil is Going to take care of your everything You need plus get you a you know a new Car $100,000 car or whatever because you Know you go to some of these facilities Now and you look in the parking lot at What these kids are driving I'm Like I guarantee I guarantee you were Driving better car than I was at Harvard I give I mean and look and and and look I'm not faulting the kids or saying you Know talking negative C go get it man if You have the opportunity I mean that's Your gig but just keep the the core Values of like what like you you are a Part of the small percentage that gets To play this game at this high level you Know what I mean at least you know I Understand that you got to take care of You and whatnot but also like this is The Ultimate Team game and you're not Doing anything as a quarterback without Those five guys in front of you and I'm Sure as hell they don't have the nil Deal you do you know what I mean so I Just hope that these guys are Understanding that whole part of the Process you know genie in the bottle Thing is tough that that's the the Hardest thing about all of this is what Once the Genie's been let out of the Bottle okay and all these things are it Is I'm not going to say it's impossible To to put it back in but it's pretty
Close to Impossible because all you're Going to be able to do is you're going To have to figure out some level of Parameter 100% you're gonna have to now rain this Thing in it's like cattle it's like the C right cattle you got a group over here Group over here everything is scattered Out Among the whatever well now Somebody's got to come in as one of the Ranchers and kind of like hey we got to Get this thing at least everybody's got To get in the same field with fencing so That we can at least go there right now I'm gonna tag you a difference some may Be bigger some maybe not but I also now We have to differentiate and kind of Understand like where we're going from Here so like we said the rich just Aren't going to like continue to get Richer you know what I mean I mean You're looking at Oregon where they've Already said like hey you have unlimited Nil whatever you need like this is Happening I mean how are you gonna how Can you be Ruckers and compete with that Right or any of those parameters and That's not even going into the actual Like paying of the athletes like through Their collectives and all this other Kind of stuff like it's just a lot that Has to be rained in I think I think These guys really and Dave and I talk About it all the time it was originally
Like hey these guys are going to show up To a little card shop or something do an Autograph session and make a couple Hundred bucks and it's turned into oh my God like this guy's get an endorsement From Wendy's yeah as we talked about um right Now the NCAA certainly cannot reain it In because they don't need the NCAA Which is really really tough um right But you're you're going to have a Quadruple A professional football Program that's right it's the it's Simply um the minor leagues you know Like in a with way better pay and no Buses And this isn't Bull Durham Bro that's right no it's it's it's it's Really interesting I I I uh the the um One day when this if if it gets figured Out because look the here to me Trajectory on things are this right You're 100% right it's it there's a it's A minor league system and the trajectory Is this now does the what what do all The FCS programs and the group of five Programs do right so if everyone breaks Away like the why it's why I think you See a lot of them trying to be FBS now Too as well right well if the well I'm Saying if the big four conferences let's Say they break away I I'm organization X And we now run football in the NCA kind
Of just a a sidebar to keep us having Some regulations that's their job just Regulations that's It that that organization in itself and This is this is the issue with it all is Basically a pro it's a pro organization It's a pro organization that has Universities as their backdrop as their Stadium rights holders re I mean let's You know the name on The Stadium how are You getting I I mean listen if if I was Getting and and I that's what I would Try to think about like myself at that Age right like and I went FCS so it Wasn't you know it but myself at that Age and I was a pretty mature guy I was Recruited by The Ivy Leagues I was very Good Student um I I would say I did most of The right things as a as a as a high School student I would had a really hard Time okay if you put a million dollars In my hand keeping myself I I would have Went to practice I would have done all Those things because I wanted to be a Pro football player I would have done All that stuff the football stuff I Don't think is as much of a concern the Question is you're you're University They're Le they're basically a lease Holder on on on on your athletic Facilities and they don't really have an Incentive to go to class other than Getting the bare minimum right and the
Question is right they're not looking Looking for an education like they Want out of those 105 scholarship kits Even at the biggest schools the best Programs in the country okay at the best Programs maybe out of those hundred Maybe 10 of those guys so it's 10% of Those guys will have somewhat of a Lengthy NFL career I'm talking at Alabama Ohio State Michigan the really The whole K Kabuto maybe 10 of them will Have a career that lasts beyond that Four years we're talking about and I was An agent for six years an NFL age for Six years and I could tell you firsthand If you don't get past that first Contract okay unless you're a first Rounder if you don't get past that first Contract the amount of money you have is Really just kind of a start for life It's not going to get you through so That's that's the big thing that happen So now you have these guys who think They're going to go to the pros the vast Maj even if they make the pros they're Not going to last that long and then They stand out there okay that 90% and Say I got I got shafted and then they How do they approach life then you know Like it's not like everybody's always Out to get them and everyone will say Well listen everyone will say oh they Had the opportunity of course they had The opportunity but when you take a
19-year-old kid and I I mean I I forever Will say this you take a 19 yearold kid And you put them in that situation you Have to be so mature So mature like one of the reasons why The NBA got rid of the high school Athletes coming out okay was not because Of LeBron LeBron was mature okay whether You like LeBron or don't like LeBron he Was mature it was the two or three There's stories about these guys who Would declare for the draft out of high School oh God who had no chance of Getting picked up there really were College players no chance of getting Picked up or thought that they were Going to be Stars and didn't become Stars that was really the reason why They went to the kind of the freshman Year Rule and and I don't even know if That's enough but like that's one of the Reasons why basketball went to that it Wasn't because of LeBron see everyone Goes and points to LeBron or Jermaine O'Neal or some of the guys who really Succeeded Kevin Garnett Kevin Garnett And say well those guys were that 1% of The 1% that were mature one% of the 1% Most young people they could be very Smart great parents still not have that Maturity you know I mean let alone kids That maybe come from broken homes or or Tougher situations yeah that's a whole Different a lot harder without guidance
And I think that's that's to me the Thing that like we're just kind of you Know it's an easy thing to say hey you Know what you had your opportunity and And you didn't take advantage of it yeah That's only that's part of that's only a Part of the story what what um what do You think like from your experience and And I'm not asking asking to solve it Solve anything because it might be Impossible right but from your Experience what are the things that you See young people they need to have in Order to give themselves because you're At Harvard and you've seen a lot of your Players really do really well what are Some of the things that you think Players need to have to have that Opportunity to be successful in life I Think it's character and discipline uh No question about it and you know to Somehow grow up in an environment where They understand the power of Education They understand the limitations of you Know college football is only going to Get you so far and that's not just in The ivy league yes you're gonna have Kids in the ivy league and certainly at Harvard that can play at that level but What percentage is that and you're going To find out the same thing in the NCAA And the reality is and to your point so Many of these quote unquote kids you Know all of a sudden at age 24 are going
To be saying whatat the heck do I do now Right because they've always just had That you know hey I always have an Opportunity or somebody's coming at me This way or this they've never gone Through that you know process of you Know getting knocked down and then being Built back up with support and all the Other stuff that because they're just Every time they've been knocked down They just turn and run and you know like You said I think it comes back a little Bit on the parents in in too as well Like you know you got to instill a Little bit of something where you can't Always you know separate it right Separate it don't constantly be all About this and sports and all this other Kind of stuff like you know the car ride Home after a game shouldn't be about why You you know you missed a tackle or it Was a bad throw or you know it should be About like hey let's go get some Something to eat or let's have a Different you know I just think yourself The right way you know like like when I When I criticize my son it's for Carrying himself the wrong way like you Know young kids the the thing I noticed From going from biggest thing from going From high school to working with youth Kids and having worked with the NFL guys And as an agent and and to go with youth Kids is that um youth kids are learning
How to conduct themselves right you know They they they they let their emotions Get the best of them okay now we I saw We saw what happened let's how do you Get that emotion in the right way how do You get into a positive direction how do You get control of yours because I have To do with my own son how do H how do You get control of yourself so you can Think clearly on the field right and how Does that help you going forward well You know when you get upset in school When the teacher tells you to sit down Sit back down or you're talking too much Do you get control of yourself or do you Talk back right like these are like Small things that can be can be Addressed right away and and those are Things that really uh I think help them In the long run that I think we're Starting to miss like it it it's like Okay you're on a Team all right well when there's 30 kids On the team or 40 kids on the team not Everybody gets to touch the football or Or basketball you know or whatever it is Right how do you adapt how do you how do You contribute when you're not touching The ball how do you contribute when You're not the star but you're one of The guys right how do you learn to Handle and I think those are things that Skill sets where people could just jump From thing to thing to thing you never
Learn like how do you handle that Because at some point you're not always Going to be the guy I'll give you one One stat I'm curious curious your Thoughts on this but well Dave to your Point I think and I agree you know we Always modeled football as an Opportunity to really learn about life Okay great life lessons you learn in College football there's going to be a Lot less of those great life lessons With the new and current model that's a Great point and then that's what we've Always preached right and then you say To yourself as a coach you're like wait A minute this is what I've always Believed my whole life and now it's Changed and so it's a weird it's it's a Weird place to be too so um not not just A a negative thing but it's a it's a Strange place to be because you've You've thought of football in a certain Way always and that's changed a little Bit not that you can't you conduct Yourself the right way but the outside Environment you know one of the things Things I thought when when Derek was Talking about like um uh you know the Money these guys can make I saw a stat They had a a thing about like these Influencers and the PE they did a study On the guy the top I think it was like The top um 100 Influencers in 2 I want to say maybe was
14 or 15 something like that who were The in those guys on like YouTube or or Tik any of those things that were M you Know the top people the most influenced People making the most money out of Those hundred only five of them were Still Around but it's it's so that's people Are making short-term money right but Long they had to do something else even Those people so that's kind of what you See with like the nil is kind of like You're kind of like a influencer in a Way and if you don't take care of the Other things only five out of those Hundred that that's shocking to Me yeah dark I'm sorry I cut you off no No no no you're good I I I just think It's it's very comparable to what these Guys are like and especially when we're Talking you know got like this all Originated scholarships were to get your Academics paid for and be able to play Your sport at the same time student Athlete like yeah I might be old school Right and we're only talking you know College for me was you know my last game Was 2007 right but I just always felt a Certain type of way with that title as a Student athlete right like I walked into Class and a PR you know professors hey Nice game this weekend bro like I I that Was just such an appeal for professors And people to know that you were part of
Something that was promoting positivity For this University and to me that was Just like I really don't know how I Would have even approached this world You know look I was a mediocre player But I I played FCS I was at Sacred Heart I had family stuff that made me transfer Down to a division three School in Montclair State and I played for one of The greatest coaches in the history of The game so that was you know an entire Process and and Coach G you know coach G And cola always preached like guys every One of you has your own situations going On and I'm going to coach each one of Those situations but at the end of the Day you're still a team you're still a Student athlete your education is always Going to come first and I just I just That was just a thing like being a Student athlete having that title was Something that I I don't know if these Guys respect that as much well to your Point Derek I think he you just made a Strong case for at the highest level of College football now student athlete is An oxymoron at best Yeah and and it's interesting because Having been to the Harvard Yale game and Have at at Harvard and having been to The game and seeing what that is like And the atmosphere of a what you would Call a college football first of all was Obviously packed to the gills and so
Anyone who's ever been that like you Know who doesn't understand Ivy League Football like that hardl game I mean it Was unbelievable I went with one of the Guys I played ball with in college and He lives in the Boston area and we went To that game and we just we had such a Great time and the people were great and The atmosphere is great and the Positivity was great and you got to feel What Harvard is like like the school the Atmosphere walking through through the Campus going to the other side to go to The stadium right and and really that Whole Atmosphere is such an amazing Thing what and and and I I'm curious um What about Harvard and the atmosphere of The ivy league makes it so special and Different than other experiences I mean That that maybe you had or that your Players say they've had um in school and Sports you know when we recruited kids Fellas you know we would say here's what We believe this opportunity can be for You you can have an opportunity to play A high level of football it's division One football no it's not the SEC it's Not the big 10 but it's division one Football okay if you're good enough you Work hard enough you work smart enough You can also have an opportunity even Though statistically speaking it's not a Great op a great percentage you can go
To the NFL and we had like we talked About we've had kids become all Pros but The reason you're coming here is it's Going to give you an opport opportunity To get the best possible education to Have a great Collegiate Experience on And off the field and go out into the World and do what you're gonna do and And that's why I'm such hugely bullish On the ivy league and certainly on Harvard football it is a a phenomenal Opportunity and uh but again it's not Pro football no doubt but it's the It might be some of the most important Football being played because the Leadership that those guys are running Everything that's those guys are running Things down the line literally s so You're impacting you know and like I Said like um you know I I've met players Of yours that are CEOs of companies you Know and build Companies my my neighbor's a Harvard Neighbor's a Harvard Alum he's a Fantastic guy you know and and uh so It's it's um and he was a he was a he Was a he was a New England guy as well And you know just loves Harvard loves The play didn't play sports there but Love loves loves the place so it's great Place yep no no doubt coach I can't Thank you enough for coming on and Taking the time we've T we've taken We've taken an hour and 10 minutes of
Your time so so you can't you can't get That time back coach you can't get that Time back but we we no we truly thank You for coming on um it's really an Honor honor to talk to you um you know I I've been from AAR I've admired your Career um you know the things that You've done not not just from a Championship standpoint which You've Won Plenty of those um but but from you know The kind of character that your program Has had um what what Harvard represents And and and what you represent I can't Thank you enough for coming on Coach I Thank you guys really appreciate you uh My last words go Crimson Crush Yale it never leaves coach it never Leaves I love it thank you so much Really appreciate it's been an honor Thank you thank you coach have a great Day thank you guys thanks Coach listen and we had that discussion Talking about conference realignments And those rivalries that you know you're Not like that's not happening anymore You know what I'm saying like those are Gonna yeah they'll still be there you Still have your Michigan Ohio States and Whatnot but some of those other little Rivalries that were a big part of it Like that stuff's going to dissipate a Little bit with the con in conference re Alignments and the ivy league has that I Mean talking to retired head coach
That's a lot that's like what he comes With like it's it runs deep man it runs Deep that that was really a just a Phenomenal conversation phenomenal guy I Mean really really and and of course you Can handle uh uh and any topic we we Discuss you know as you would expect From the the Harvard coach but yeah Legendary I'm sure I'm sure he had many Many many many many calls to get out of Harvard and go somewhere else and take You know and just like coach sh from Prinston like these guys are nope this Is where I need to be this is what I Like this is what I enjoy you know yeah Those dollar signs look excellent but Like most times the higher the dollar Sign the more issues you got so these Guys are Rarities in that facet right Absolutely no doubt I could talk to them All day all right we'll let you go we'll Let it go and we we'll hit it next I Think uh we're we're back on tomorrow Tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow yep tomorrow With Alabama State running running back Coach so we'll we'll in the gamut all Right have a great day
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