Leadership Performance with Ramona Shaw Interviewed by Coach Schuman
35 min readLeadership Performance with Ramona Shaw interviewed by Coach Schuman at nucsports.com for more info #leadership #performance #entrepreneurship
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00:00 Introduction
03:15 How Leading Changed Ramona’s Career
07:36 Leadership brings immediate feedback
11:58 The Importance of Awareness
16:22 Lead from the front
19:41 The importance of a system
24:30 US Grant Humble and Recognizing people
27:46 Developing a complete team, not just more of you
33:18 The Glen Gary Glen Ross Effect
38:27 Helping people with their confidence
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[Music] [Music] Welcome back for the successful life Podcast another new episode we've been Flying through them uh what a season It's been this is coach human here and I'm with my special guest today covering A topic that's near and dear to my heart Leadership and helping managers people In business entrepreneurs uh really Improve their performance from a Leadership standpoint something that we All need help helping including myself At every time and every turn uh welcome Ramona to the show thank you so much for Having me I'm excited to talk to you tell Everybody your background uh where you Come from how you got into to uh this as Your expertise Yeah so you know there's just saying Where you have to go the greatest mass Is where you have the greatest message And that definitely sounds true to me I was Um thrown into a leadership role for the First time as a first as a new manager Back It's been i want to say about 12 years Now Uh in a pretty male-dominated High-performance um fast-paced Environment i worked in finance or Private equity specifically and i was
Asked to build up a team lead my former Peers and grow that team um Without a whole lot of if any training Or coaching and mentoring along the way And i was keen and eager and i was hard Working and felt like yeah i'm gonna Figure this out and stepped into this Challenge which i thought was a great Career opportunity and I realized That this is harder than i thought Leading people is a whole different Ballgame than just executing well as i As an ic And Um through my own journey and the Struggles that i had during this time Which were less about the performance Which is why i think there wasn't a lot Of intervention it was Really just me feeling stressed out Feeling frustrated feeling like this was The hardest job Or hardest part of my job was to lead People and that the easy fun stuff was To do my own work Which i realized that as someone who Wants to grow as a leader in my career That's probably not the right setup and I started then working with a coach and Really dove into this topic in this Field of leadership development loved Everything um soaked it up like a sponge And realized how
Understanding what was going on for me And why i was feeling stressed and Frustrated and why leading people with Heart and what i needed to learn Was about you know the people skills and The leadership aspects aspect not about The actual tactical thing that the Profession that i was um that was i was Doing or my team was doing During that time and so Really diving into it and And learning and applying The information helped me what i would Say change the trajectory of my career Not only was i promoted and was able to Take on bigger teams and more work But i also loved that part of my job to Lead people i really felt a whole lot of Um Satisfaction coming from it to the point Where i thought everyone needs this we Need to develop and train new managers From day one i could have Saved so many uh frustrating moments in That you know during that time i could Have avoided so many mistakes if i had Invested in this earlier and done the Training and leadership development Aspect of my work And Through this uh sort of my own Experience I um helped implement coaching Frameworks or coaching tools and uh
Mentoring in the organization and um Ultimately created my own business now Doing this full-time and helping Hundreds of new managers and more Experienced managers as well level up And getting that leadership development Training in place now what's your Educational background like where where Did you go to school for what was that Yeah so i was um i was born and raised In switzerland i went to school as a Typical swiss i studied finance so I moved into consulting i moved into a Banking and then ended up in private Equity um For the biggest part of my career Corporate career That's that's really interesting um now Swiss are known for being finance Managers And um it's it's something that has been In their forte in their background Uh It's it's something that uh Is an important aspect in their culture Now from a a learning standpoint from a Finance standpoint Are they most more focused on purely the The financial part from a mathematical Standpoint how to make uh pop proper Trades investments all those kind of Things and what aspect of learning from A management leadership standpoint is Taught
Yeah you know i think It's probably changed too since since Then but um In the way the world that i grew up in Was very performance oriented so it was All about How much can you accomplish within the Shortest time the shortest time frame Long working hours um a lot of focus on The output and the results And i think that now especially as i Work in the bay area in san francisco With a lot of startups and this whole Idea of people first The the conversations around diversity Equity and inclusion The idea of Compassionate conscious leadership all That wasn't really present back then and It was very performance based and that Helped you know that shaped me growing Up but also shaped me then in my first Leadership career and what i see now is Definitely a bit of a shift and even the Organization that i used to work with is Now a client of mine they're gone Through tremendous shift in terms of What they're providing and how they're Teaching leadership and i think the same Is probably true for many of the other Um top performing companies and Financial institutions and switzerland Too How did you move from the the aspect of
Being corporate being in finance working For hedge fund um leading a group in That capacity and then moving into your Own coaching aspect working with Corporations and now essentially Becoming uh the consultant to them Helping them lead their teams what was That transition like You know i think that there was a time Where i started to really really get a Lot of satisfaction out of helping Others develop their leadership skills And With um I realized that the the financial part While intellectually stimulating wasn't Really It wasn't really making me feel good About what i was doing i was so detached From actually seeing the impact on People yes we were making money for Pension plans and so people would have a Better future and And you know we could look at all kinds Of indirect connections and how what we Were doing was helping people but it was You know miles away from actually seeing The impact in people and now the work That i get to do is So immediate um seeing what we're Creating here is changing someone's life Or changing someone's career In a positive way and that to me was You know that fuels my heart feels my
Spirit um so the transition was easy And it was interesting still challenging In a very different way Um but i'm beyond grateful to be able to Do what i do today what are some of the Core tenants that Are critical that you believe uh Managers need to be able to possess some Of the skill sets they need to possess In order to to lead and work with people Because there are many different Management styles Um there's a lot of managers uh that Have an innate ability to lead and then There's a lot to have to work at it um All can get to the same Position of being able to leave it Effectively um but they have different Levels of innate skills some have Different educational backgrounds what What are some of the core tense that you Think are important for a manager to be Able to have to be able to lead others And lead individuals to be able to get The best performance Yeah You know like just like you said there Isn't one way to lead Um there are different manager styles And i think Um when i do work with leaders and i Talk about this in my book the book that Recently came out that i wrote about Leadership growing as a leader and
Moving into leadership for the first Time i really focus on three main Pillars The first one is developing awareness i Think that When leaders have invest in developing Their own self-awareness and knowing What's working for them and what isn't And what may be some Strengths that can be overdone right for Example me being too result focused can Be helpful but then it can be overdone And it becomes counterproductive or Effective And um but they're constantly in Investing time and effort into building And growing our self-awareness but Asking for feedback Um reflecting on what's working what Isn't That also includes then building Awareness of the people around us We don't need we don't we can't lead a Whole team Um the way that we would want to be led Right so we And i'm curious to hear your perspective On this as well but I thought that oh this is how i like to Be led therefore my team would like to Be led that way too Basic assumption very wrong assumption And once you hire people with diverse Personalities or right they you start to
Realize what works for one person does Not work for another one We see this as parents have three kids Very different personalities i can't Parent them all the same way and In that understanding and um Starts with Investing and being curious about how The different personalities what works For them and what energizes them what Drains them what are their strengths What are the ways that their strengths Could be overdone and really inquiring In conversations watching them Reflecting on what they're doing what They're saying Is a critical part so that's the first Pillar the second pillar to me is about Developing your own principles and i Really believe that we have to lead in Order to lead sort of authentically Right but to believe to lead in a way That makes us feel like leading is a fun Part it's a fulfilling part of our job It starts with getting clear on how do We want to lead what are the things that Matter to us And so developing your own leadership Principle would be the second pillar and Then the third pillar that i talk about And think is really important in terms Of leadership development is the Leadership system so average awareness p For principle and s for system the aps
Um approach this leadership system is All about the routines the things that You keep doing over and over like what We frequently talk about the one-on-one Meeting Feedback conversations it may include Performance reviews it may include Career conversations it may uh include The way that we lead and run meetings And what kind of meetings that we run From scrum meetings or to daily Stand-ups and all hands and whatever That may encompass um And what are all these routines that are Visible to others that make up your Leadership I find that really interesting so Awareness first of all i think is is one Of is probably the biggest thing uh as Far as the first step right Understanding What People's goals are what their objectives Are what their strengths and weaknesses What their abilities are Is an ongoing um thing and that's Something that has to be understood from From a leader standpoint but it can be Very difficult to get out of people what They need so and I'm curious and i'll go through each one Of those pillars hopefully um What What are some of the tools
A leader can use to be able to figure Out so there's some people that have a Great feel for how someone might be And what motivates them but then you Have you know uh others that don't do a Great job of communicating back to you So what are some tools that that leaders Can use to find out Where each person fits on that's kind of Spectrum of being able to customize Their leadership Yeah Um i think that a lot of it starts with Just asking questions um we don't have a Crystal ball like we can't read other People's minds Some of us have existing relationships With or long-lasting relationships with Some employees and we get to know them Better over time but especially when We're in a growing team where we have New hires on board we don't know um and So we just gotta ask questions hey What's working for you tell me about a Situation that's really challenging what Are typically personality types or Behaviors that are hard for you to Navigate What are you most what inspires you the Most what motivates you the most What are some pet peeves that i should Know about how do you like to Communicate Um
What are you appreciating most about This job or what may be some things that You're that you you anticipate to be Challenging Why did you choose this company this Court this culture what resonated with You the most what are some concerns you Might have so there's a range of Questions But really being curious and spending The time to get to know that other Person i think is critical and then There are assessments that can be done You know team assessments that you could Do to better understand them you could Have them go through an assessment Process there's a tool called the user Guide which i think is really Interesting to practice too or to apply Use in a part of the leadership system That you write Um instead of or answer a set of Questions about yourself And you share that with your team but Then at the same token it's a two-way Conversation or two-way relationship you Ask them to do the same and to answer The same questions and then that gets Shared Those kind of things can really speed up That initial process of getting to know Each other and understand each other's Similarities and their differences and Then being able to tailor your
Relationship To meet where how they need you the most Or how to be most effective with them Yeah it's it's it's an art and a science Right so That's what makes it a difficult process That it's not just uh one thing with Respect to principles And establishing your own principles So You know uh for me for example Someone that's accountable is important Holding people accountable whatever You're using from that standpoint Um Uh people that Have a responsibility that are selfless Um even though they have their own Selfish goals they ca they have to be Selfish within the organization in order To get us Um to work towards a common goal How does someone go about establishing Their own Guiding point from a principal Standpoint Yeah I think that um it starts with what you Just said like i i like the kind of People who do xyz that's that just Thinking about it and writing it down Could be a very easy thing to start Doing what is it the leaders in your Organization
That you admire the most What do they do um and not just admire Most but also that you want to imitate You like and that leadership style Resonates with you it's likely things That would make you feel good about Yourself too as a leader if you were to Embrace these kind of principles i think You know accountability or integrity are Really big ones i want to be a leader Who walks the talk i want to be whenever I commit to something or i set a Deadline or i tell someone i'm going to Follow up i will follow up i will you Know I will honor my word in that sense um Those are all principles that then help Guide our behaviors or help us and help Us In decision making or in in situations Where we have to make a decision am i Going to do x or i'm going to do y when We have those principles defined That will create not more not just more Certainty and confidence for us and for Us as ladies but also makes us more a Little bit more predictable which is a Good thing for those around us those That we lead because they realize That person is a you know they have Really strong principles and i know what I can expect and i can predict how They're going to respond And even the leaders that we admire out
There in the world are often the leaders That we could describe from the outset From the outside Pretty well this is that kind of leader Who prioritizes these things who values Those kind of You know whatever it may be And reflecting back on what is it that You do and reading books for example Looking at statements or comments that Are made that resonate with you Capturing those to develop over time Develop your own set of leadership Principles or your leadership philosophy Ultimately And incorporating all this into a system So Um i've always struggled with this Myself I hate systems You know there's some people like my Father love systems i hate systems but It's something and that's i'm an Entrepreneur as you are I like to have uh freedom to make Decisions to so What are things that people can do now In corporate that's a little different They're much more used to everybody has To have systems but in corporate there's Probably already predefined systems Coming in To the to the for the leader um whereas If you're on your own you have your own
Business you have to establish your own Systems What what are some of the things that People can do some simple Things that they can do to to establish Systems in place Yeah so i think um And that's this is maybe where where i See people struggle with the most is as A leader right part of your job Description although it's often not Written down it's often more implicit Than explicit is that you have to get Feedback feedback is uncomfortable So and we also know that So here we talk about constructive Feedback But we also know that recognition and Praise is a huge Driver to employee engagement employee Satisfaction so knowing that How can you ensure that with Recurring consistent habits and routines You are going to give constructive Feedback and you're going to recognize Your employees if we leave it up to you Know Sort of whenever it pops up whenever it Occurs to me that someone did a good job Or whenever i see that and and i am in The moment where it Sometimes it's you know the shower Moments like oh you know i should Probably recognize this person oh i
Should probably give this person some Feedback Then we become reactive and that's the Thing that a system will prevent we're Looking at what are these patterns that I want to set in place in order to check The box on all the things that we know Great leaders do And you probably in your book you Probably have some of these things that I could imagine that you'd recommend to Leaders too of what are what are the Things that you want to recurringly do Feedback and giving recognition just one Of them career conversations or um Career conversations are one the Onboarding process and how do you Onboard people as another one There are frameworks on how to delegate That some people really leverage a lot And use Um there are that and then i've already Talked about the meetings so taking a Step back and saying in order to run my Team meetings well here's what i think Will work the best you experiment with It you iterate over time but that comes Becomes part of the system and Ultimately we're looking for Structures that they'll never stay the Same because the world changes and you As a leader change your team and Responsibilities all that changes so It's an iterative process but
Defining it and writing it down Will provide so much confidence and Clarity again for yourself and probably Also for those around you and to be able To to be transparent with some of those Routines Be transparent with some of those Routines and then you know in a world Where we freak only change jobs you Might two years later switch over to a Different company you're not starting From scratch you already know this is What worked and yes grain giving granted This is not a plug and play but As a leader here are the things that i Will start off with i will start off With this kind of onboarding process This is the way my first 30 days in the Leadership role here is the here are the Things that i identify as really Important here are the things i will get To know that i will do to get my get to Know my team Here's how i will give feedback how i um Ensure that i recognize and appreciate Them These are the tools that i like to use Yeah just capturing all that yeah yeah i Think const fedex back is a critical Thing i think a critical thing is how You divvy out um Positive reinforcement and negative Reinforcement and when those things are Used and
Um understanding where every Person that works with the uni Organization is in their life cycle with Your organization that's a It's a big deal and you know i've done It i have to deal with it myself in my Own organization Um you know you have people that come on Board That are Perfect for your organization at one Stage and then another stage not good For your organization those are Important things that have to be Identified as you continue to grow those Are things that a lot of leaders Struggle with And you know One of the things that i use is a great Example in in One of the most brilliant strokes of Leadership that no one would ever have Thought is if you go the civil war in The united states when Um abraham lincoln fired General mcclellan And brought in A ulysses s grant and that was a huge Moment In history because that person that was In there As the original leader was the person That was the celebrated general the Person they thought should be the
General and he did nothing he would move On the the southern troops he wouldn't Wouldn't act And then they brought in ulysses s grant Who finished at the probably the bottom Of His west point class But he had ability to understand The objectives and he had the ability to Understand his people Um people had dismissed him as a guy who Drank too much and all those kinds but What he was was a was a brilliant field General he had the ability to lead Understand his people put himself on the Line um And to back the people and i think the Thing about recognition is really Important it was one of the things that Grant did better than maybe Almost every general in history because Being a general there's a large amount Of ego right in in that role so they Understand that they have to get other And motivate other people but a lot of Times there's glory with it as well and A lot of it goes to the leader's head in Some cases and mcclellan's a good Example of that Um but But ulysses s grant Becoming the general was a very humbling Thing for him so we always approached it From that aspect so despite someone who
Was incredibly flawed Um and had a lot of flaws to him that That ability to be humble and to deal Out recognition to his the people who Worked with him Really bowed well it was one of the Biggest strokes of leadership that Abraham lincoln had to be able to Recognize that to go against the grain And to choose someone that no one would Have chosen other than abraham lincoln He saw something in him and it's an Interesting thing that leaders do Uh really good i mean that's an example Of obviously fantastic leadership but on A day-to-day basis those are things that I think you know with your system is Really important that you can do every Single day because identifying the right People in your organization to be able To perform at a high level the ones who You know sometimes a great performer Doesn't say that much sometimes he does You know being able to cut through all Of that and to be able to figure that Out is so so critical And a lot of leaders struggle with it i I used to struggle with The uh the person who was had a Personality like mine that was very Outgoing i would gravitate towards them And a lot of times those weren't the Right people for me To work within my organization because
That didn't fit necessarily with with my Leadership style and then you end up Having a friend that you're working with Instead of being able to have And and having friends within your Organization is is fine but it can Undermine the leadership within your Organization so you have to be able to Have those systems in place i really Think you put it uh really nicely um Tell me some examples that you have Dealt with in your own practice Where you've helped a group or Organization really kind of improve Their leadership and their performance On leadership Yeah so i think that there's um You know there's the the awareness of What are we what are we doing that's Working and what are we doing that isn't Working i think some common themes that Come up especially for people who are New to leadership and transition from Being a high performing individual Contributor into that first leadership Role it comes with Not just which i think by the way is one Of the biggest transition if not the Biggest career transition someone's Making because they're now Not just uh Adding that new Responsibility but they have to change Their identity and their mindset
In a pretty significant way in order to Be successful as a leader So for example i think you know common Themes that come up that we that i coach On and that i see people really change Over the course of My programs or work together or or Overall in their leadership growth their Personal leadership growth growth is That they stop thinking they need to Have all the answers so i think very Common for those high-performing ics is I got promoted and some of them is also The messaging they get from the company Is i got promoted because i am doing Something really well like i Am the person who has the strongest The highest level of expertise or Because they really like how i do what i Do so therefore they're promoting me so I can create or lead a team that then Does what i do so well so there's more Of me Right And that is actually not true that will Not create an effective team with people That feel valued and appreciated for Their own strength And their their personalities that they Bring to the team it's not leveraging Their strength and so that might that That whole mindset shift of oh i what Got promoted but now What got me here is not what's gonna get
Me there right the famous thing and We'll I'll have to i'm not the one who has to Have all the answers i am also not the One who has to solve everyone's problems And my way Is not the way that everyone else needs To be doing it And Going through That transition to then figure out okay So with that in mind how do i need to Lead then because it's not going to be Leading by problem solving and giving Everyone answers and by enforcing my way Of doing things but instead it's about You know being curious with Understanding who am i dealing with and Then bringing theirs really calling on Their strength It's about asking more questions than Just giving direction Help encouraging others to not just own The problem but also own the solution Figure out solutions themselves so i'm Not the constant um i'm not constantly Being the person that they depend on but They grow in their their own in their Own journey i'm Less of a superhero and more of a yoda In the background so Shifting that shifting that mindset is a Huge one and i see people go who go Through this who
It frees up their time and makes their Job a lot more fun and engaging because They feel less responsibility on their Shoulder they trust their team members More and you know and vice versa And so that's one and i think um another One that is really important Is the In where i see a lot of people struggle Is The the lack of clarity on expectations And so i something that i see people Really Thrive and feel good about Um Getting to is when they know exactly What's expected of them by their bosses As well as they know that the people on Their team know exactly What they're expecting of them And i think Um i'm curious to hear your thoughts on This too and i think that a lot of Leadership problems are things that we Have people problems maybe more so Stem from a lack of clarity on Expectations and i don't mean just a job Description with you know 20 bullet Points on it but really explicitly what Am i expecting And turn some of the implicit Expectations that we have especially With Remote and hybrid teams
How we're doing work and turning them Into explicit expectations really Putting it on the table Clarifying those things and doing this Over and over it's part of the Leadership system you can't do it once And let it go you have to keep having That conversation There's no doubt about it you know one Of the things that i think are It's very interesting when you promote People um you're familiar with the peter Principle yep Many times someone is wildly successful In one area and you think Okay now i'm gonna get the classic Example is the fantastic sales person That you make the sales manager and Really what he is or she is is a Fantastic salesperson and that's where They should should have stayed that's Where they thrived and now they become a Manager and they fail and you're looking To fire them when really what they Should just be doing is selling right so That's so that's like the easy simple Example of it but peter principle is you Know We all fail To to the level of our expertise so What what we have as far as um our skill Level is We have a we rise to that level of Failure so meaning
We get promoted until That's our cap for whatever reason And i think one of the things that you Do that's a great ex An important part is we want to be able To push through that cap because Otherwise the peter principle just falls Right back on top of us because every Single person has some You know there are some people that have Like we talked about innate leadership And they can rise really really high Without having to have all of these Things in place they may do it naturally Um and there are others that need help With it so every person can become a Very good leader within their skill sets But if they don't work on understanding What their flaws are and what things That you know and where they need to Round out so if i become a sales manager And i've been a great sales person my Whole entire life and now i'm in charge Of sales You you better believe that i have to Focus mostly on the techniques of Selling and motivation and the people Who are doing the numbers like what the Numbers are every month and who made Their numbers like i have to have Someone that's responsible for that Because ultimately what i care about if I've been a great sales person myself is Helping others be able to sell and it's
It's um It's a great movie um ever glenn gary Glenn ross have you ever seen that movie No no no it's about um It's about It's I want to say 80s i can't remember if It's 80s or 70s so i uh but Uh it came out when i was a kid so i Didn't see it then i saw it as an adult But um One of the interesting things about that Movie is they're all The the sales managers is a fantastic Stock trader Who now is in charge and his only way of Leading Is to drive people to the brink i mean Literally foot in butt and like go And and not everyone responds that way And it's a it's a he's the one that Talks about abc always be closing right Which obviously it's one of the the First movies where they talk about that And it was made famous in that and he's You always should be closing well the Issue is That there are people that are older That come from different backgrounds and Some of the stocks they're selling are Not that great you know it's uh someone He wants to pump and dump and all those Kind of things so The issue lies in that this guy was a
Fantastic salesperson And he's all about hey you should be Reaching this you should be reaching That and he got that way by Um someone pushing him to the brink But everybody else in the room was not That way and it starts to fold on him as That becomes a process but it was very Enlightening because That's and and you've been in financial For for a long time you're in that area And you understand this that is a lot of The the way that you push in in the Trading sector in in the stock sector at Least traditionally that's how it was Because those people get weeded out Right it's just like uh the the modern Movie the movie with um Uh with the will smith when he um how's Great movie where he ha i don't know if You saw it but he had a he had a child And he was he was Yeah you know what i'm talking about Yeah which one yep so he ends up taking The internship he becomes wildly Successful he was self-motivated yeah um And he was someone that was Self-motivated He was an easy person To You know to be able to get successful Because he was motivated by a lot of Intrinsic factors There are other people that are not
Motivated so that's an example of a guy Everybody wants that guy and their team Once you see him work because he will do Whatever it takes to succeed There are other people that may have That ability And They just don't know how to go about it And then there's some people that you do Have to kick to the curb because they Don't have that ability and and another Place in the organization may be better For them and that's an important thing From a leadership standpoint where Should The the natural donation is let's fire That person yeah You know maybe Someone's in sales who should be in Marketing yeah yeah right someone's in Sales who should be in operations Someone's in operations who should be in Sales right um yeah And the the class the classic on the in Your you're over in san francisco in the Tech spaces uh the engineer who's not That great of an engineer but Understands the product well maybe they Should be selling the product and not Having try and trying to make them code When they're not as good as the other Coders right those are all Or they should be leading the team Depend on the engineers who are really
Good about you know for doing the work And they're uh they're maintaining the Team yeah that's a that's a great point Maybe they should be leading the team It's all part of that process um this Has been fantastic Can you let everybody know uh Where they can find out more about your Your book as well um i'd love to read it If you wanted to send me a copy i'm Always willing to learn more um And uh where can everybody find you how Can they get a hold of you how can they Reach out to you Yeah um so i'm on linkedin from onasha My website is ramonashaw.com and the Book is available on amazon it's called The confident and competent new manager How do you rapidly raise rise to success In your first leadership role Before i let you go and you because i Forgot about that part the confidence Area yeah Motivating people and developing and Building their confidence what are some Of the the things that you've done first Of all by the way before i say this I don't know if there's a lot of ramona Shaw's in the world but that's really Good that you got that url that's great That's fantastic It seemed i mean it seems like that's That might be a tough one to get it's Fantastic that you got it um
Uh but confidence it's you know this That's always a tricky subject How do you build people on your team's Confidence Yeah it's it's actually really Interesting i think there's um You know confidence comes from you know Understanding if you look there's Different aspects of this but to keep it Sort of in a nutshell there's the inner The inner talk this the self-talk that We all have and as managers if you Notice someone is having negative Self-talk To call it out and to um mirror back What you as a leader see in them Is actually a really impactful way to Influence them and to help them build Their confidence To call out the things that they're good At the achievements that they have Because people with low confidence will Often explain away all their successes With luck or coincidence or actually Someone else set this up for me they'll Not they won't own it or they're not Paying attention to it they're quick to Look at the next problem or the next Area that they're feeling And so keep reiterating at what are the Wins if i have someone in my coaching um At work that i know we're building we're Working on confident we're working on Confidence i will start off every
Conversation with What are the things that you want to Acknowledge yourself for what are you Proud of what have you actually achieved Since since we last spoke that is knows Worthy and then people often were like Oh my gosh yeah you know i forgot i Actually did this and i also got that Done and Um just Celebrating those wins is a way that you Can do this as a leader for others and Then instilling the confidence in them Giving them challenges that you know They may be struggling a little bit with This but they'll figure it out they'll Be resourceful and to let them know i Know this is the next the next level for You but i trust you like i know you will Be resourceful and you'll figure your Way out and if you make mistakes along The way this is what we're trying to do Here you'll learn from them and you'll Grow and i know that this is something That is that's the right time for you to Embark on this journey and that Confidence that um that we get or that The That messaging that we get from someone Who's our leader Tremendously impactful for people That that is fantastic you know what i Really liked Um
Calling i never thought about that Before calling out when someone has Negative self-talk You know it's your it's your Natural incarnation to say no why don't Don't feel that way but to say It's better to say why are you thinking Like that because you've done this this And this There's no re you know what can we do to Get you to think Positively about the situation That's uh you know as i coach football For 20 years That's One of the things you deal with on a Regular basis with teenagers you know so Uh and but you deal with it in adults in A different way my company For the last 20 or less years Adults Execute that in a different way through Jokes a lot of times i've seen so many People Execute Through Humor Negative self-talk You know and it's it's uh i've always Had a challenge with that as a leader Like How do i how do i bring that to light Without making them feel You know that's part of their
Personality oh when they can't do Something they make jokes of it right so And that's a common defense mechanism That people have if i can't do it i'm Gonna i'll make it i'm sure i've done it You know everybody's probably done it Right because it it it makes you feel Better but i think it's Really brilliant how you do because i Was i was curious how you handled Confidence and and um some of those Things that you you talked about there Were really those are like nuggets of Gold there because that is always A difficult issue i think As a leader First of all some leaders struggle with Their own confidence There's there have been people that have Been good leaders that's true I i hate to always point out like george Washington To me was always an example of Almost like the quintessential leader Right he was At the time he was strong Um you know if you were to say what Person you would want to Invent a country that you know back at That times obviously women didn't have The opportunities as much back then but Back in those days that would be the Person that you would say okay he's he's Tall he's tall he yeah his leadership
He's uh talks when he needs to Everything he talks about is always Important But I always found that was so interesting That abraham lincoln became one of the Greatest leaders of all time because He struggled with so many things within Himself his own confidence in himself Failing over and over again questioning Himself even even his own relationship And his marriage was always a battle Right his his wife had some mental Illness issues they also had a ch Which really came from the fact that Children died of their theirs which he Struggled with right so he was Melancholy at all times Which had to be difficult for people Around him his wife his children the Other leisure but yet he was able to Kind of Help others be confident You know When it came to making decisions And It i find that so interesting how and That's why i say leaders come from all Different walks in shape and sizes Yeah and i think a lot of this is you Know and we could talk for days probably On this but this is about managing your Mind because i think the reason why Abraham lincoln was able to do what he
Was able to do despite Um the sort of the challenges that he Had and he faced personally Was because he was managing his mind He knew that yeah i got this and yet i'm Gonna get up Yes i feel like this way and yet i'm Called to speak up And Um so he didn't let that stuff hold him Back he accepted it as this is part of The package and He's on he has a purpose He is here called to do something and he Has this this like drive that kept Coming up throughout his life right to Step out of the Comfort zone and go and do And I think that managing your mind is a Really really important aspect for People who want to grow and expand and Co if confidence is holding them back That is part of the the journey and like We said earlier when when we get to the Peter principle where we get to that Level if we don't Work on ourselves We're definitely going to be promoted to The level of incompetence Naturally so anytime we look at i want To grow my career and i have these Ambitious goals It cannot come by just
You know Doing what we currently what we've done In the past and keep doing that and just And to just keep working hard it has to Come With developing greater awareness Learning more skills constantly Reflecting on our leadership and And thinking what can i do differently How can i broaden my toolkit so i learn Not just how to lead when things go well But i i prepare for the times when Things won't go well Yes it it it's amazing and i think in Modern times it's so important because Because of social media a lot of people Get doubted directly right and they take Those feedbacks to heart but you think And there's so many examples right Harriet tubman she had narcolepsy yet She was helping slaves come across in The time period where i i mean what she Did was amazing frederick douglass Lincoln choosing him to be in his Cabinet and frederick douglass being Able to rise up as When blacks had no ability to be able to Rise up and and be able to do that you Know and that's why i always say Like the more you go ahead and try to Seek out challenges that you can succeed And i think you pointed out that so Brilliantly okay You don't want to take on the world
Right now But you want to take on pieces of the World at a time and then maybe you can Take on the world Eventually and and that's a really i i Think is a great lesson for everybody i Can't thank you enough for being on the Show i learned a ton Yeah this is awesome thanks so much for Being for everybody else [Laughter] And i got a history lesson too i'm like Wait what i'm gonna watch this and take Some notes well i love how you pointed Out how he he got himself up every day And that's actually true i've read a lot About him and obviously that's why i Have kind of a good experience i've read Multiple books on him and and um because I was always intrigued but george Washington read books on but george Washington's life as i read it is like Almost like You know uh now he had challenges uh Everybody as everybody does but he just Had like he had that gift you know like He really had the gift and he knew how To hone on it hone it in he was smart he Had all those he had a lot of the tools That you needed Lincoln Really had to find the tools and and he Had to figure it out and his home life Was it was just horrendous and yeah you
Know uh so It's a great lesson no matter who you Are that like there are people that come From that that realm and then their p And i use it in sports all the time you Know michael jordan i tell this to my Son all the time his sophomore year in High school michael jordan didn't didn't Make the varsity team yeah exactly he Became the greatest basketball player of Oh in my opinion of all yeah Yeah but i think you know if we the work That we do we see this constantly There's maybe one in ten if at all who Has the natural george washington gift If you want to call it and nine others At least Don't and so we could easily say like You know as a leader this is just the Way it goes and we look for those Natural talents And i think especially when leaders come Together and talk openly and vulnerably About the challenges that they're facing In leadership development programs they Realize like oh man i'm not alone you Know these are con this is hard stuff And i'm not the only one who's dealing With this and this and that Um and and to really accept that that's Part of it and Investing in it and leaning into it It's the way to go Awesome awesome yeah thanks so much
Thank you so much i wish you the very Best uh hopefully same to you we'll get You on soon i know you have a podcast as Well um you know make sure you take a Listen go to ramonashaw.com Uh take a listen to her podcast pick up Her book uh engage with her and and Learn more about how to lead others uh And and help them to be successful this Is exactly what the success for life Podcast is all about we cover a lot of Different things but this is this is What the original in intent was i can't Thank you enough for being on today Thank you so much appreciate it all Right
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