Athletic Trainers providing next level treatment for athletes with John and Lyndsey Davis
Athletic Trainers providing next level treatment for athletes with John and Lyndsey Davis
All right welcome back Thanksgiving Edition of prospect podcast we have two Great guests on I'll let Derek introduce Them um Lindsay and John Davis uh both With extensive history of athletic Training let you go from there Derek Yeah so um John Davis longtime trainer Monclair State University babysat me for Three years that's for sure and then uh His daughter here Lindsay um just kind Of followed suit along with it and now She's uh doing the same stuff at uh you Know high level College um looking to Kind of you know move her career along So I'm excited to kind of talk to uh Both of them about maybe like some of The differences some of like the you Know the similarities and whatnot and How just athletic training um really Helps all of us go because a lot of us Just see you know us players on the Field or you know guys doing what They're doing but really all of that Behind the scenes stuff in taking care Of each and every athlete um is just Leaps and Bounds adds to it in terms of Getting guys on the field and allowing Them to kind of you know play and Perform at the at a high level so um Thank you for being here I appreciate it It's uh you know holiday week so I know It's it's busy and it gets a little Crazy so I appreciate both of you taking The
Time you're no Problem um well since we have both of You on and and Lindsay you're at you're Currently at Davidson correct um and Your father John was at moner state for So many years I think my first question Really is because John has been was at Mon state for 40 years um Lindsay is now On the front end of it at Davidson what Are some of the kind of changes maybe um And I'll let John kind of talk first and Then Lindsay that you've seen kind of Like injury types and things that have Become more and more prominent over the Years in sports in general obviously Football is a bit is one thing but in General as far as Sports Go I would tell you probably the biggest Thing that I've seen as a change is uh The the amount of women in the Profession uh when Title 9 finally Passed in 1972 and the women were Allowed to play athletics that opened The door for not only Athletics but for People like Lindsay to get involved from An athletic training standpoint and the Prof the NATA uh the national athletic Trainers Association is currently uh Over 50% 55% female so the the women That are associated with The care care and Welfare of the Athletes is U is Tremendous Lindsay um I'd probably go along with
That I've Worked almost every sport Under the Sun Now and it's just each sport is Different and has their Different injuries that come along with It so it's just trying to learn from Those and you take them into the other Sports that you work too JD just in your Years of kind of you know how many years You've done it is there certain specific Injuries that you've seen kind of you Know used to be something and now maybe It's not so much just maybe in terms of You know or you know something that you Know used to be not so much now or kind Of Vice Versa uh I I think the the the amount of Research that's being done across the Board with all kinds of different Injuries has has changed our perspective Me concussions would be the biggest Thing because of the way people it's not Just you you had your bell rung uh That's not the the adage anymore but at The same time the O overuse injuries in Baseball and swimming and uh a number of Other sports go to have created the the Need for more care and prevention of Those injuries Because whether you're talking about uh College kids or uh kids in Youth Sports The year round nature of sports creates Has created that many more Injuries yeah it's something we talk
About all the time right Dave when we Talk about guys being kind of one sport Oriented now especially at the younger Levels you know you just don't get that Muscle development in those other areas You're just you know if you're that Baseball guy that's constantly throwing Throwing you know that shoulder or Whatnot and where we talk about all the Time like we try and push our guys you Know to do multi-ports because it kind Of encompasses those other You know aspects of it whether it come In terms of you know injury prevention Or just strengthening those other Muscles that maybe you don't get enough Of when you're only doing kind of one Sport yeah the the crossover nature of Playing multiple Sports helps you Because it's strengthen your muscles in In a variety of different Ways yeah that's and talk about that a Little bit because um are there certain Sports that really you've seen have lent Thems to overuse injuries I I I would Assume that football's probably less of A overuse injury sport and more of a Probably direct impact injury sport uh From that standpoint just because the Nature of the sport in general kind of Multi-direction and all that kind of Stuff but uh but I'm curious if there I Mean baseball is one of the first ones That comes to mind especially with
Pitchers right um uh but are there are There sports that you see a lot more Overuse injuries this is for Lindsay or John that than than um uh than you see In others I deal a lot with that with Swimming because it's the same Repetitive motion over and over and over Again uh so I see a lot of that there And then with tennis that also too like The constant use of your wrist your Elbow your shoulder a lot of overuse There now H H how do you have them Combat those kind of things so tennis Players I'm assuming it's very difficult Once they start to really focus and Especially at the highest higher levels Or or Beyond um for them to do anything Other than than tennis right as far a Sport playing standpoint whereas Football lends itself to playing Multiple different Sports basketball Lends itself to playing multiple Different sports um sports like swimming And and Tennis are two sports actually That come to mind that become very very Um focused very very early and I bet Most of your athletes have been focused In that one sport for a very very long Time so how do you how do you combat That um to really kind of work on those Things to to stop some more of that Overuse injury stuff it depends on the Sport and the person uh we've just got a Whole new football stadium and weight
Room that is amazing State ofth art and So all the athletes are in a lift Program to help them but then also like We have our training room where we have Like stem I Uh we have bfr which really helps with a Lot of tendonitis and then Um also like Consulting with our doctors And our pts of just finding other ways To help get them to be still on the Court but With either modifications or limits or Whatever they need and by the way Davidson is a beautiful campus beautiful Beautiful you're spoiled oh my God that Place is unbelievable so they they put a New uh they put a new complex there did They tear down the the complex that was Existing there or they built on top of It uh so they built the new football Stadium across campus and the old Football stadium is now it's almost done Being renovated into just a track Facility track right I remember they had Track there the track at that facility And they had a Fieldhouse that was Facing that too right is that still uh Still there uh yeah so that's like our Baker Advance athletic center so that's Where our arena is that's where I Basically live I don't really venture Too much out of there uh all my sports Are there um so the pool's there our Tennis courts are behind there we have
Indoor courts and then volleyball plays On the Main Court so and that's where my Training room is where I work every day John you look like to visit there yeah It's beautiful if I had had facility When I was at Montclair I oh hell it was aw JD we I Mean listen and you got an update like You know like when I'm talking about Working in like a closet like holy hell I mean it's and and that's one of the Things too that you see a lot of these Programs and you know they're putting Money into this the the athletic Training or even like the athletic Science part of it where they're Investing money into these facilities Because they know like part of it is our Athletes one it's optic correct right And then you know Mom and Dad aren't Going to send a kid somewhere the guys Aren't going to go somewhere where they Don't see that what they can take Advantage of in terms of you know injury Prevention and all of those kind of Things so money being spent in those Areas is a big part of this whole thing I mean JD you probably saw it in just Your time at in your time at Montclair How much it became something more than It ever used to be well I I don't know Whether I'm being Prejudice or not but I Think that athletic training and the the Care of the athletes is the backbone of
Any Athletic program is going to be Successful uh so across the board you You need that um and to go the the the Other step forward when you're talking About support and edic or um athletic Facilities if you look across the board At many that I was involved with Division 3 programs around for a long Time all those programs all those Schools put in very nice Recreation Facil facilities for the whole campus Population because people want to be Healthy and want the opportunity to work Out more yeah 100% oh I'll tell you one Of the things that I learned as an athl I played at the University of Connecticut and um I mean the Phil Cilities to have there compared to when I was there it's like not even close It's like it's like a spa now so but um Literally it's a lifetime it's another Lifetime Fitness you're good it's like It's like a lifetime no it's better than A Lifetime Fitness to be honest um but What happens when national championships On the r yes yeah each place has their Own thing um but um uh but when I when I When I focused myself as an athlete into Working with the athletic trainers to be To be more preventive and really I Figured it out when I got was getting on The the back end of my career when I was A Junior and senior versus when I was Younger where kind of the coaches and
This is obviously the 90s so it was a Different time period but the coaches Are always like stay out of the athletic Training room but once I had I had a a Back injury we had a sit out a year and That was when I um I realized uh the Importance of the athletic training Because that trainer nurse me I wasn't Supposed to be able to play football Again I had earning a disc in the 90s That was uh at the time thought of Unless she got surgery of being like the End of your career I she actually got me Back she she she strengthened you know All the back muscles and I and and my Herniation amazingly went away and I Came back and I played and I started but But from that point forward I realized That there were things that I could do To prevent the injuries that I was Having instead of like working out to um And try just trying to avoid the Training room like trying to avoid the Things that the TR you know when you got Hurt what you had to do obviously that's One part of it but I started to do Little exercises and things that would Actually help prevent these some of These injuries and my last two years it Was really a life I mean I didn't sit at I didn't miss a game you know my last Two years now obviously part football Part of that's a little bit luck right a A little bit luck not stepping in the
Wrong place at the wrong time or someone Rolling you up but as far as those Little things like things that could Have been problems I was probably able To avoid talk about the importance of Athletes starting to understand the Prevention side of it not just the the Post haste side after they get Hurt it's not necessarily well it's the Athletes involved but Coaches are smarter now and they Understand that if you say back off a Little bit a lot of times they're going To back off um most time they're goingon To back off I think there's a there's a Bigger trust Factor there for uh Coaching staffs and athletic trainers Than there ever were before and just the Collaboration of like the athletic Trainers with the strength coaches to Just to help have Them in a Better uh like alignment and just like More so stronger but also then to hey Buddy Um people like schools have now More put money into like nutrition and Mental health and like we just got a Mental health person for just Athletics We have a that's amazing nutritionist That works across campus but Like that's just Davidson whereas like If you went to like VCU in our Conference where they have a
Nutritionist for every Sport and a sport Psychologist that works with them it's Just like depending on where you are is How much resources you have to Just cultivate that and put the athlete First and like their health first before Yeah I think it's uh Lind and I think You're spot on too right like it Obviously goes down to where you are but Also like in speaking to you JD like I Feel like even throughout my career it Kind of started right where it was like Like Dave said stay out of the training Room it was kind of like coaches against Trainers almost like trainers didn't Want players to perform right so there Was kind of that like fine line and push Back and forth of like who's right who's Wrong but now I think like you said that Collaboration between coaches trainers Strength staff nutritionists like Everybody all on the same page and Ultimately just wanting the athlete to Be as Elite as possible as they can Right and if all of us work together We'll get more rather than everybody Just trying to like fight back and forth I think that has really you know moved Ahead and pushed our athletes to be Better than ever all just because like Now everybody's willing to collaborate And have that Conversation it's also like technically Actually the athletic trainers are like
Mostly the bad guy because we don't give Great news all the time So um them realizing that we're like Coaches changing that we're on their Side and we're trying to get them back As fast as we can but also like it's Really nice that the coaches that I work With that Davidson are not rushing them Back they're like they need to take the Time to get healthy and right um I can't Say that it's the same in all the sports Because like our basketball programs Like we've now got nil and there are Yeah there's a lot listen and there's a Lot of stuff to it now Lind right like When now you're talking money and we Talk about this stuff all the time Dave And I and everybody who we talk to you Know that money factor like you got to Get back because you need to be in the Limelight and you need to perform and There's pressures from all over not just On the player on the coach to win all of Those types of things I mean JD we dealt With a head a head football coach who Was there for you know 30 something Years like we never had to worry about Him having to do certain things and he Was going to do it his way but I always Thought that your relationship with Coach G you know you would sit down and You guys would meet and it was hey this Player is out for this long you know and You would look at the longevity of it
Right like hey uh you know he's a young Guy let's make sure this is not going to Be one of these reoccurring things I Like I said that communication I think Is just on a different level now you Know with most coaches and trainers Across the board I would agree I mean I Coach G I don't think we argued over Maybe more than five guys in the the 35 Years we work together um but um The the coaching staff that I'll go back To what I said before the trust factor That you guys were discussing Um it's it's there and it it makes a Significant difference to the the Athletes care and Mom and Dad get to Know the fact that we're there taking Care of the Johnny or Sally um without Much influence from the coach and the Coach stay stays in their Lane Yeah I think that's a a hard part to That a lot of coaches have had to really Uh learn how to do and I think the Mental health component coming in is is A big deal um with everything because I Think you know I think back you know how How that part is really evolved the Mental health component like that was Like you know that Was yeah you know feel good about Yourself like go to the bar you know and Drink it off you know That's actually the worst thing you
Could do so um and uh and I think that That part has really been a great Evolution on Heck um you know I uh I I I Do with my my own kid my own kid's nine Years old and I have them uh talk to Because he plays a lot of sports I have Him talk to someone about like how he Feels about things and all that kind of Stuff because we want to make sure that He's not feeling like he's doing too Much or if he or if he's in a pressure Situation you know he has a better way Of dealing with things because he he Plays quarterback he plays point guard Like those are you know a little bit More pressured in some of the other Positions in sports and and uh trying to Help him through that so he doesn't feel The weight on his shoulders I could only Imagine what it's like for college Athletes especially guys that getting Nil money I mean that's a whole whole Different thing people think oh they're Getting $2 millionar or a million Dollars this is uh you know their their Life is easy but obviously be when You're getting that amount of money and You're a young person um that amount of Pressure is is is very very high to Perform and that could actually crack You uh from performing well um talk About like how you guys when when Athlete comes to you when you try Because the athletic trainer seems to to
Me be like the Hub of the person to Refer right like just like like a General practitioner doctor is kind of Like okay you come in we think we have An issue let let me refer you to this Specialist for that let me refer that How do you kind of view your role in in In the athletic ecosystem and and am I Correct about that yeah I feel like Myself as like I'm the gatekeeper to all Of Their resources that they have um so It's deciding whether or not like we we Have our JM doctor that's on campus Pretty much every day so it's whether It's going to see them or like our Orthopedic doctor or or having to like Resource them out to uh like a foot Specialist or a spine specialist or Wherever like they need to go I'm the One that like gets their foot in the Door and helps set that up right you Navigate that world and and JD when when We were at Monclair like I always we had So many doctors and so many guys on the Sideline that I you know like are still You know that I've still used right in Terms of whether it be you know Dr Mack Or Dr plaus or Dr you know Fester like All of these guys Dr wowski right uh Dr Braver like Dave each one of these guys Bra yeah da these guys were on my Sideline every game Richard R you had You had Dr Richard rver oh he's the
Greatest he's the doctor one I always Thought that one of the best things that I was able to do at Montclair is attract Good doctors who wanted to be around uh They love they loved being around Athletes but they also like to be Involved in the in the training and Teaching of athletic training students Yes they were constantly like you know Dave like you'd be in the I mean they Would be we'd be in the training room And I'd just be getting taped and Someone would be in there right and I Thought that was an excellent part of Monclair State too was when I was there Like there was always learning going on And you know you just it was it was nice To see and now look I mean now I see These people every you know all the time If I'm on a sideline somewhere like There is usually someone or some shape And form is related back to Monclair in Some in in in some way and Dave we got To work with Christina em who's like you Know ultimate Monclair State like you Know what I mean so like each one of These people but the doctors as well I Mean Dr Mack did my knee surgery i' I Was with Dr braver for a long time with Foot stuff I mean those people you know You're getting the best care and like You said Lind like for you like you're The gatekeeper okay hey this is your Injury go see this person or even like
That puts somebody at ease right when an Athlete's injured it's like look let's Just go here you don't need a specialist Like if it gets there then we will so Like you're a mental health expert on Your own just having to navigate those Waters with all of your athletes and I Can only imagine for the sports that you Use right or the sports that you do with With tennis and swimming like that's Almost more of an individual sport right Where they're kind of in their own head Probably a lot more whereas you know Football and stuff like we have some Teammates and things of that nature so I'm sure you're doing you know your part On the mental health side as Well yeah it's that's just a whole thing That's evolved especially since me Starting it seeing like growing up in it But then going through yes undergrad and Then coming into here now Like there's still like the stigmas Around it and when like schools have the Resources it's more accepted Whereas Davidson we just got that so It's still like a learning Curve cuz we also have davidon is a very High academic school so yes we actually Call our student athletes scholar Athletes because they're expected to do Well in the classroom first and Then perform on the athletic field Rec Court okay is there thing now I guess
Yeah I mean literally like are are you No it's okay maybe still at Davidson Dave but you know what some of I'm coming in here A year later like I'm Gonna get drafted so like you know what I mean like and Lind is working in those Different sports too right like so you Know from tennis I guess you become a Pro right swimming I guess they like Long for the Olympics maybe or something But it's not like football and then also Understand like our division three Football is sure as hell not the Alabama Of the world and with dealing with that Type of stuff but at the same time People are getting hurt right and people Are needing to deal with these things If it wasn't for like athletic trading Staffs I don't know I mean I lived in The trading room like that's just like And it wasn't it sure as hell wasn't by Choice but you know to learn how to take Care of your body and do those things It's just so pivotal nowadays and now to Move into this world where the mental Health side of it it's no longer like Hey suck it up or toughen up or do that It's like hey I'm really dealing with Something here like what can I do how Can I go about this what do I need to do To kind of get to change how I'm feeling Or what not before it becomes something Else I think it goes back to the Education within the whole thing itself
Like I'm sure Lind you coming up you Know recently with your undergrad and All those things I I'm sure you've seen It even change in just that little bit Of time period right because let's see How long you graduated your undergrad in What Year uh 2015 okay so 2015 and then from there You went and did so you're you've been Doing this training almost 10 years now Right at the Collegiate level and then My goodness like talking I I would my Last season was 2007 and you were on the Sidelines already so you've been around This your entire life just the whole Change all of the changes I'm sure You've seen right even now with Dad Finished up and now doing his whole Thing right like I'm sure JD you never Thought that you'd be see some of the The things that you saw change Throughout that time period especially With the mental health side of it um I Just think that it's just it's it's Constantly evolving right with science And technology and those types of things Like how much does that play a role the The science and the technology that has Now come along um in terms of athletic Training and the preventative care stuff Well just think about the the first the First statement in in athletic training Is the prevention and care of athletic
Injuries so the students are taught that From the beginning but just the thought Process that um athletes are um getting Care that was never even dreamed about 15 years ago uh I was talking to one of Our doctors uh the other day about doing Um ACL surgeries and a long time ago Acl's they strap they put them in a cast For six weeks after the surgery now You're doing rehab the next day that's Lit people have studied it researched it Uh practiced it and it's become common Care that you're going to give them uh Early range of motion yeah I mean those Things uh you know think about it back In you know Dave like even with like you Know we talked about it when we used to An ACL used to be borderline career Ender if not you know you were out of it For oh at least like a year and a half Right at least I mean I see it even from When I did mine to now now you know and We're talking like 10 years even within Like two years from when my sister did Hers to to to when I did mine the Technology and of these things I mean Look like even last year you know you Kind of saw like a spike in Achilles Right like tearing Achilles you know and Just for how fast those guys are able to Get back with the things that they're Doing it's incredible some of these guys Would have never been the same would Have never had the opportunities that
They had but because you know that Advancement and that research that's Being done you know it's taking it to an Entire different level it's also like For like surgeries any type because These athletes are with us they get to Come in for Rehab every day whereas like The normal person is going to PT like Two to three times a week and we have All these things that like help to Promote Muscle growth like bfr has Been like a game Cher for me explain That a little bit ly because I'm not Sure people will know what that is uh Bfr is Blood Flow Restriction so it uses Like the science of the blood pressure Cuff to like olude blood flow to the Limb which is making your muscles work Harder um and it's getting you stronger In a faster time frame like what you Could do in six weeks in the training Room you could do or in the weight room It's like four weeks in the um trading Room that's incredible with the Bfr wow now is that Stu is stuff like um Along the line with like cupping and Those kind of things where they're They're trying to get quicker Rehabilitation when you when you use use Your muscles or or perform cing is more Of like a modality so I use it more for Like tightness or like something of that Line to help like soreness or somebody's
Tight so that we're preventing a muscle Strain or a tear whatever um bfr is more For Like actual building strength for Surgery but I also have found it is Really helpful with Tontis um like I have a bunch of girls That have ptis on the volleyball team Because it's shocker to me it was much More lower body injuries than it was Upper body injuries because they're Jumping right because a lot of people Think volleyball like this or whatever With shoulders and all that but for but Really like you've come to the Realization that it's legs right it's All you know squatting and exploding up Jumping Landing all those kind of things So you see a lot more lower extremity Stuff yeah and like making sure that all The athletes Have a well-rounded like muscle strength Of their lower body like You don't really focus on strengthening The glutes or the hip flexors but They're so important for your quad and Your hamstring control which then will Throw everything off so making sure That we can get them back to where they Were with less pain and just like having Them be just stronger and better Overall makes Sense that's inter so VFR is like is That like foam rolling and stuff like
That those kind of things or no so it's Like an actual like blood pressure Machine oh and it's a cuff there's like A bunch of Different got it companies that do it There's some that are Like people will do it with like a Tourniquet it just it depends on where Like where you're train this is I get Fascinated by this stuff cuz like I know If we had half of this stuff like when I Was there I'd have been like sleeping in A hyperbaric chamber like if if I knew Gotten me like this much faster or Whatever I would have done it because Like I had no wiggle room to be shitty Or sure as hell be hurt I didn't have That I needed to do whatever I could and Ultimately stay on the field and be as Healthy as possible at all times and you Know I see some of these guys now like Even the the the young kids that I work With I don't think they really Understand the importance of this and And look I wasn't one of of them because I came from a small group one program Where we had a trainer on game day only My junior year that was it a junior year High school I didn't know a training Staff my coach taped my ankle if I had An injury so I didn't know any of that Until you know I really started to be Around athletic training in college in Terms of hey like yeah come get your
Ankles taped and yes JD taped right to Your skin there was no pre wrap like That was part of it so like you had no Hair by week one it was always funny That the Freshman like didn't understand That so they got like you know that was Welcome to the training World um but Like even my guys now like they go to The trainer you know pre post whatever I Mean you know look obviously you know Emer is is one of the you know higher Level athletic trainers and she's very Fortunate to have certain things and you Know Dave and I have been around Numerous trainers and just to get the Kids to understand that this is not a Punishment right and like don't fight me On this because I'm ultimately trying to Help you I think that's a piece of the Puzzle that the younger guys right going Into college or just in high school in General they're starting to get that at A younger age whereas you know even Dave Son who's nine understands like hey you Know Dad I got to do some ankle Exercises or whatever or because you Know maybe this is sore or that is sore So he's going to know that You know going into sports having played It all the time guys are more aware of How to take care of their bodies and That education comes from that a lot of Now with mandates as well too like JD I'm sure when you started most high
Schools didn't have Trainers correct and now it's probably At least in New Jersey it's like 95% right I mean like I said I didn't Have one until you know Dave felini Showed up my junior year you know and Then ultimately being my boss at Mount Olive but it was funny he would show up On game day only if you had any injury Dave during the week or anything like That like we had an assistant coach tape Ankles right and like that was you kind Of just like did it on your own and then When you got a trainer it was like wow Oh my goodness like I can actually get My wrists taped or hey you know like run I just rolled my ankle okay get spatted Up like it was just so different that Awareness of like hey we actually have Somebody here to do that and even like You know doctors on the sideline like I Said at Mont clear State I had like six Guys you know we had a stretch guy for God's sakes right like like and now That's like the norm you see these kids On the sideline warming up at our Showcases Dave right and they got the Little gun out like warming themselves Up like doing all this other stuff to Get themselves ready like that awareness Wasn't around when we played I mean I'm Sure you can res I mean I'm sure Yukon Was a little different but you know it's At the same level like it's just now
It's across the board everybody looks at Athletic training in a different mindset You know you know where it's not in yet Believe it or not I mean most high Schools in New Jersey it is in and I Could remember I could tell you this I It cost me a coaching job years ago um Where there was a kid who was uh got Hurt and they they sent them home and I Was a varsity coach and he like showed Up on a a JV bus for a game which I Wasn't coaching and because there was no Athletic trainer in the school there was No one to you know what I mean to check All these things to make sure uh this Was going on I'm coaching the varsity Guys I had no idea you know a kid like Went home for school and came back you Know what I mean so it was uh it was one Of those things and the J the JV coach Had no idea that that that happened as Well but athletic trainer would have Known who are the guy because you go They go with you they would have known Who that person was amazingly after that Happened that an athletic trainer showed Up one week later uh but uh uh listen When laws are involved you know what I Mean like yeah yeah but at the youth Level um you don't see trainers at your Youth game on a Sunday dude well that's The crazy part to me so and I'm curious You're guys I mean I know I kind of know What your thoughts will be on this but
I'm curious what you think solutions Would be for this so in Youth Sports That's a hugee huge issue okay kid goes Down I mean most of them are minor Injuries right like ankle you know elbow They get banged up or something but There's never anybody there to assess Them right and you know smart coaches Will just keep them out of the game or Whatever or if it's if it's bad they'll Send them to the hospital or something Or or or call an ambulance but I to me It seems like there should be more Trainers Athletic trainers hired at youth events Because Dave that's that's like So stuff before they get to high school So I never even thought about that Though Dave like I never there's almost None maybe a maybe a championship game You know what I'm saying yeah like go to Any go to any Athletic Complex on a Sunday in the fall where you got five Youth games and there's no trainer you Got a snack stand for you got this you Got all where like that's Inc I never I Never even there is sometimes there Isn't that's pretty much my best way of Putting it sometimes there is sometimes There isn't well what are your thoughts On how we could really help that I know Now that since like you have like Jag Physical Therapy they Outsource athletic Trainers for those things you have like
Game day sports right well Dave we have A company that does our seven on seven When we're down in Delaware that kind of We've used that remember they kind of Outsource some trainers and whatnot I Get that but but like that's incredible Go ahead Lids keep goinging sorry that's Becoming more of the norm because people See that but it's just not as widely Practiced is Like in Collegiate and High School Athletics so it's like as when in high School like yeah you had an athletic Trainer there the next time because of One thing or it's now it's starting to Saturate into the US Sports there's Still a lot of work to do but it's Starting to saturate itself to do so Right so like that would make it like so You could like sign up with that company Lens and then you're kind of like an Independent contractor under them like Hey I need somebody at this field for You know soccer tournament and like go Yep got it makes sense Dave right like That makes sense like hey you got Referees that do it right like that you Know and in the old days you know Obviously athletic trainer cost costs Money so that used to now way way back In the day used to have like doctors That would be on the siling that would Volunteer their time is that something That that still happens at like the high
I see it at high school a lot still that Doctor still volunteer their time on the Sidelines um but athletic trainers in General are are Basically Um uh either in the school or they're on That contract that you're talking about Um how do they feel like how do people Continue to fill gaps in that you have To go to an outsourced firm is that is That the best way that they should go And do those kind of things well up I I Currently do work for uh a part-time Company uh and get hired out and he the The people who run a business get calls Every day for multiple jobs the question Comes down To people to fill those roles and how Much they want to pay because it comes Down to one thing you want if you want This at your your child event you need To pay for it not gonna be and they want And they want to like lowball you as Much as you could Poss Think money that's the problem you Probably the lower the level the less Money there is right because those People aren't paying to get into a game Right so they don't have any like extra Kitty and that's like probably the first Thing that goes even though when you Look at it Dave like that's the one that Can cost your entire business because One injury it's like it's over to get
From a very simple standpoint you go you You hand your kid over to a coach for Whatever sport does that coach that you League coach 10year Old Coach know any First a in CPR at a basic Minimum most that right right like and We're talking a minimum right because Obviously as High School coaches we all Have to be you know CPR certified and All those things but like look at your Youth staffs Dave like do all of your Are all of your coaches DPR certified I Am but a lot of those guys well let me Let me back up actually um the football Football-wise we are because uh the the A they man they it's mandated so or no Matter who you are if you are a the Lowest level volunteer coach meaning You're just a dad that's basically on The sidelines to the guy who's running The team you have in order to go on that Field you have to have those things it's Important that that that part is good But like shoot when you go I mean I know Because I I I I coach um travel Basketball you know I don't I don't Think that's been mandated I happen to Have it obviously because I coach my son Of football but I don't think that's Been mandated like I haven't heard Anyone say anything about anything there And I think that that's uh uh part of The thing you know I wonder also there Pro there must be like a shortage per se
Because there's such a need for athletic Trainers so many different events that The there there there must be um a Shortage of that right there there's There look there's a shortage of I mean Why do physical therapy places do so Good there's a shortage of physical Therapists and obviously everybody's Trying to get into certain places so Phys if you open up Physical Therapy Facility it's basically like opening up A cash cow right um in in most places Around the at least in the Northeast um But athletic trainers is the same exact Thing there's just the great ones are Like Lindsay right they're in a college Or like you are JD you're in a college And and your time is is p paid there um But trying to get also those guys Dave Most times have to teach classes in the Building in high school right like Sometimes they're teachers on top of it And have to go teach a class or two a Day um you know what I'm saying like so Some of those gigs and I think Dave just Add to what you're did not to cut you Off but the burnout rate right like Think about what time sometimes trainers Are there till Dave Saturdays Sundays You know summer summer like you know What I mean like these guys are there All look they got to come in early to Get treat to give treatment right they Got to stay late to give treatment
There's just so much to Do like that's my question is how do how Do we improve how do you combat that the Profession improve and what are the Tools that they could do to help ath Like as you guys see it to help athletic Trainers have that environment be a Better environment for them uh um and And so so more and more people want to Be an athletic training field and Exactly what Derek said don't get burnt Out from all those hours and all that That time that they have to put in right From especially from that appr look I Remember The Apprentice process you know When when I was at you I'm sure you had This at moner State like those Apprentices were going everywhere with With with the trainers and they were Doing they had to log just to be you Know what I mean just to take that next Step or I need this for this class like I remember when I was at West Orange Dave we had kids from Sean Hall William Patterson like multiple colleges with Multiple student trainers that had to do What they need to do so yeah what what What can we do to improve this so more People want to do it and then ultimately You know stay in it as long as you did JD well I can probably speak to that More now just because it's changed so Much especially being at the division One level like there's
Times where like in a month and a half I Don't get a day off because of when Games are when practices are or like Having to go into to do treatments Before anything um I like will pretty Much consistently work at 10 to 12 hour Day just because of how we function Which is not the norm Everywhere um which does attribute to The burnout and definitely in college Athletics hey Young yeah in college athletics and I'm Probably some high school too it's like We don't get paid our Value um And it's Just for schools to not pay our value It's like we're I mean you're literally Holding it together with you know like You're literally holding it together Tape like you know what I mean like Literally physically holding their Student athletes together and ultimately The attendance all of those things like That's what makes the money at the Bigger picture at the end of it like We're there for risk management and Liability so that like we're saving the School money because we're there lawsuit So like that's a whole mind frame that Needs to just evolve over time to have Us paid what we're actually worth 100% Bey beyond that right because um The the pay first of all division one
Schools there's no excuse for it because There's there's how much they're making Money Available uh for for most of those Institutions how how do how does it Begin to like because I guess my my Thing is that I think that the reason Why that happens is that not still not Enough administrators understand the Value that goes into right so that That's that's the whole part of it like At the word athletic trainer actually in Itself on its face is confusing right It's confusing in itself right like if I Told somebody I'm an athletic trainer They they they most most people the Average person thinks that you go work At a facility training athletes all day Long developing them right they don't Think of it as the athletic trainer that Goes and works with them in rehab uh Tapes their angles all those kind of Things gets them back uh to be healthy They think of him as a person that does Speed and quickness training and all Those kind of things um and and that's Part of the overall uh issue I think With with a athletic training is the the Uh helping people to understand that um Now this this is maybe above everybody's Pay grade but um John now that you're Working in the NFL you Pro you know the NFL obviously is working hard to to Really value these type of things and
Have these kind of SE models so that Like the job that you're doing is a Specialized job right a really really Specialized job focused in one Particular area um that's the thing that I think in the long run will start to Kind of help the overall understanding Of what this and they're doing it with Mental health they're starting to do it Here and there but um what the role of The athletic trainer is um talk about How You see the ways that athletic trainers Can continue to increase their value and And what do you think the industry has To do to educate the people that Obviously in most cases pay the bills on This stuff to Value what the athletic Trainers do it's so different at each Like institution whereas like the NFL They have all this money that they can't Put in the resources whereas like power For schools have the money to put into The resources but but you come to a mij Major and we are much more controlled by Like the actual administration of the School right and they're working the Budget whereas like power force is that Because it's private too right does that Matter too right because Davidson's Private no no whereas like it's who Controls the budget of the actual College because that's under the college Like even for M CL like they had a
President that Wasn't yep you go ahead Yeah so they had to make do with a lot More things that they didn't have the Resources for like more schools are Seeing that but it just depends on What the administration of the school is And what their priorities are and how Much money they want to put into it Because Athletics is A gazillion dollar industry right like You're telling me that these guys in the National that are going to go to the you Know college playoff like aren't making Money right like that's where are you Going to reinvest it where are you going To put it into hey we can make a the Whole aspect of the name of athletic Trainer we could we could do hours upon That Um so in the long run you've been Fighting the good fight for a long time JD exactly but at the same time people In athletics know who athletic trainers Are now it's not like 25 years ago when You walk into some place and somebody You'd have to introduce yourself so many More people know what an athletic Trainer is um the whole aspect of of the The pay and equal salary and not having Somebody work you know uh 10 12 hour Days on a regular basis that's that's Hard and but that's what coaching staffs Do so at the same time it's um a coach
Expects an athletic trainer to do the Same thing because that's what the coach Is doing um right so like is that Something that's even attainable JD Right like is that something that's even Like could you even alter it just based Off of like Lindsay said like you have Different coaches on different schedules Different teams on different schedules In order to get those athletes in and Out like how would you even maneuver That other than the fact that you know You wouldn't be dealing with the same Trainer every time right like all right Lind you're gonna work from nine to five And then after that somebody's gonna Work five to whatever like then you're Talking a whole different you know Person dealing with the athlete and like That's your team so It's kind of like I really don't look I'm not a genius by any facet and I Don't have any of the answers right and To me personally as an athlete like if Lindsay if Lindsay is my trainer or JD's My trainer like I want that person Working on me right and that's where I Feel like that could be like that's an Issue like because if you're not there What are we Doing that's yeah a big question in it Like There's depends on where you go and how Big of us sta is we have nine but we
Have 500 athl athletes and 22 sports Whereas like if you go to Power five you Have one athletic trainer or like Multiple athletic trainers with one Sport whereas right I have cover three Sports so it's I have to work those Hours because I have to see all of them Where And the athletes trust you because they Get to know you and they want you you're Their shrink on top of it all ly like Come on now like you know I had I had to Puke it out to JD a couple times like I Mean you at points like I become like Their mother their big sister their Friend their like their biggest Cheerleader it's a very because you're There at the highs and the lows right Like the excitement of like great job But then the low of hey you just tore This we got to get back and that whole Process of you know and I'm putting my Trust in you to make me get what I need Right like that's the whole nature of of The whole thing I think like it the the Creating the awareness right into like Hey look at what these people do look at The hours they work look at what they're Getting paid in terms of I mean look I'd Love to compare a head football coach Out of power five and a head athletic Trainer out of power five and see like What's the deal like how close is you Know what I mean like doctors get paid a
Certain whatever too right so like let's Talk about that but I think like you Know the stuff that you do creating the Awareness right the uh the conventions That you have the speaking and all of Those types of things I think the more You speak out and the more like you said The more places start to realize like The importance of it like maybe we could Catch up a little bit you know I'm not Saying it's you're G to turn around lens And you're not going to be you're not GNA have to work seven days a week you Also know what you signed up for right Like you watched your dad do what he did And what it takes to be great at a Profession so you know what it is but Maybe you can move that needle a little Bit yeah it's also like I mean athle Depending on where you are Athletics is Like a year round thing whereas Davidson Since this is much more academic and They're PR prepping you to go off And go pro in something else like those Ed up like uh commercials like most of My athletes want to go off and be like Doctors and lawyers so they're in the Summer they're doing internships like One of our football players was doing an Internship with parliament in England Over the summer so it's amazing I get Like a break in the summer and I can Make my own schedule and I can work Camps for extra money but if you go to
Like a power four school where they're There all year round it's just it's Just never ends yeah Lind all you need Is Stephen Curry to just drop just drop You know about 10 million right down Thanks buddy well thank you very much I'm now a pro and you guys will be in Great shape yeah then you can you can Hire whoever you want Lind yeah that's It hire hire whoever you want any time Um I I'm curious uh uh JD um if uh um From a concussion Standpoint um and and I noticed now some Of the NFL players are wearing the Guardians and and which I I thought I Find that fascinating um are are there Things that that you guys are seeing That are really helping with the Concussions um uh lowering them in General um stuff like Guardians things That are really helped to improve uh the Players Health there better techniques Better te better better technology uh Helmets are much more advanced than they Were in the in the past oh God and the Aspect of not beating the crap out of Each other in practice when Unnecessarily during the uh the week Better technique you mean tackling Technique yes Sir okay as in like we're teaching it Like a more a safer way than we used to Teach like you know just put your head Right on the football and run your feet
Definitely I mean one of the things that Like encapsulates everything we've Talked about today is the NFL I should Say the athletic training Community had A real bump in uh awareness after dear Hamlin yeah and that pushed the the Needle a little bit and helped us from a PR standpoint you don't want that to be The case but you you you have to strike While the Iron's hot so to speak right So once that happen you're saying it Became more aware of like we need these People to be doing certain things right Yeah but at the same time understand Also that the care that he got he was he Was able to survive because of the People that were there not only athletic Trainers em EMS Doctors that that was the perfect storm That's not going to happen at Montclair State right right the the the chances of And at a high school where there's one Athletic trainer that shows up on a Saturday you know if there's a pract Something happens in practice during a Week and there's not nobody there you Know the odds are pretty strong that the Person's not going to survive right Because I mean even at a high school Level like you think about it like you Got one athletic trainer Dave right Spread out over you know you got soccer Over you got boys soccer here you got Girls soccer here football's over here
What's over here they're just bouncing Around and it's like You know something immediate like that Like now what happens right like Unfortunately that's kind of like you Said you don't want that to be the the Reason awareness is brought to it but at The same time you know kind of like how The heat stuff happened after Cory Stringer passed right like exactly I Remember that became a big deal right Like that was the first like hey you Know I mean hell our coaches used to Tell us you can't drink water unless You're doing it right like that doesn't Happen anymore you know it took that Unfortunate catastrophic event to kind Of move the needle Correct yeah it's also interesting how Athletic trainers themselves have Evolved tremendously and their own Knowledge base I like I I remember um uh And and the guy's still there at at Yukon and he's like a legendary trainer But I remember them only being focused At on us drinking water during the game And didn't want us like drinking any Form of you know electrolyte replacement Stuff and I remember even at the time Thinking that that was kind of crazy you Know what I mean but they obviously Evolved significantly since then right Even on those kind of things so um and And the and now people are checking what
Their people's athletes levels are and Making sure um that they have certain Things because Um it used to be a situation where uh You're right where Athletics I think the Great thing is what what you talked About right at the beginning Is the communication between the coaches In the athletic departments and the Athletic trainers that have become Inclusive versus how it was siloed Before it was very siloed and it was it Was that battle like between the coaches And the athletic trainers and they were Battling to do get done what they wanted To get done the coaches were battling to Get done what they wanted to get done And now it's much more of a Collaborative I'm sure there are still Times and I'm sure both of you have seen Times where you're like okay like I got To make decision the coach is kind of Wants to push back on you but you know It's obviously you as a medical Professional it's it's it's your Decision um what what are like because I I think there are certain things that Athletic trainers have to do really Really well and one of them is Communicate um but the other thing is Their level of authority meaning their Level of authority and knowledge Okay and I and and you know there's a Wide range of of of athletic trainers
Capabilities what can athletic trainers Do to show their level of authority and Knowledge to coaches so they're more and More confident in their Capabilities interesting way to put the Question but I would say I would turn it Around and say the the coach the coach Has to show the respect for the athletic Trainer yes and then it'll build from That way cuz I can't I can't get get Respect unless I I show Respect that makes sense I think that's A huge point right because some head Coaches if they quote unquote on an Athletic trainer right and just like Whatever dude don't listen to that like We're doing this we're doing that then How is that athlete supposed to Understand the level of where that Athletic trainer stands in this whole Process you know what I mean like oh He's holding you out right like blah Blah blah like no like that's not it Like the trainer is like we are all on The same like this is where we're at and It's above you buddy so like this is how It has to work it's also like Understanding my role like yeah like a Good amount of the time I'm the bad guy Because I'm holding somebody out but Like at the end of the day it's in their Best interest So using that perspective of like this Is a situation and we're doing what's
Best for the individual yeah not like The team sometimes you do have to put You before the rest of the team there is A eye in team and it's me you have to Put your health first so that you can Better help the team right and it's also Like every because of society now with The immediate of everything right like Everything has to happen now now now Athletic training in terms of rehab and Those types of things about like Something that's down the road is Extremely hard especially I feel like in The younger athlete right like hey man Like if you want to get back for this Game well then every day you have to do This this this this this right like it's Same like you know same with like Strength and conditioning stuff like if You want to get to this point then you Have to build and kind of play that Quote unquote slow game and you have to Do every piece of this you have to show Up for rehab and train and all that Stuff where you know oh I'm just I'm not Going to that I'm not doing that like Yes you have to go and get this you know Stuff done in the training room every Single day you have to go in the morning And ice and do stem and do that and then You have to come back again in the Afternoon and do the same type of Process and do and yes it gets Repetitive and yes it sucks and it's
Boring and but it's ultimately going to Get you where you need to be another big Part of that fact like going back to Like your coaches said like don't drink Anything but water like properly fueling Yourself because like you as a person You expend 2,000 calories in a day just Living whereas you put athletes on top Of it they're expending way more Calories so they need much more fuel and How to get that fuel whether it's Through like Gatorade or like a pre- Snack Pro like all of those things is Something that like also needs to be Understood like with female athletes Like it's you know they don't think that Eating all this is going to help them But it's like no you need to learn that This is going to help You be a better athlete because you're Taking the priority fuel yourself Properly so that right like what you put Into your body is what it's going to Use yeah I I I think that's a big part Of it that that was what I said like uh Athletic trainers have really evolved Because back in the day they were Telling us just to drink water which is The athletic trainers were telling us Just to drink Waters which I thought was Wild and now that that same trainer is Still at Yukon and he's advocating Obviously all the all the things that Are now important from an electrolyte
Standpoint you know I mean the Yukon Facilities are unbelievable so and what They have what they have access to and I Think that that's so interesting how the Profession has really evolved um the the Knowledge base and the tools that Athletic trainers have available to them Has increased so much in the medical Community and they're continuing to come Out like I I find what's interesting Because you talked about the blood flow Um machine right the thing that Restricts blood flow be able to help Recovery build muscle um like those Things did not exist you know 20 years Ago and there's constantly new things Like there's all these things like Infrared and all these different things That are coming out look just look at Cold I wonder how I I it has to be Really actually must be fun too um how You really go to like decipher all these Different tools and gather all the Knowledge and read the research papers On all these different things exciting You must be inundated with new things I Could only imagine how many people are Showing up like to try to pict guys on Stuff that is new and that's evolving That that potentially could work Um how do you go and find new tools that Can continue to help your athletes like The one you talked about before um so Like as an athletic trainer because the
Medical field is always evolving like For you to be able to provide the best Care for your athletes you need to be Learning all these new tools that come Out so whether it's like going to a Convention and taking a workshop or like There's a whole exhibit hall that has All these Different like uh exhibitors that have All these different kind of typ of tools And figure out which ones will work best For you but also like you have to work Within your budget so like there are Some that are so expensive That one school is not going to be able To have versus another so it's just Figuring out What you want to learn about add to your Tool box but then also like how to best Provide that Care with what you have it makes perfect Sense it's awesome perfect sense um I Can't thank you guys enough for coming On really really Educational uh informative really Understanding um from I was fortunate Buddy yeah to really learn about the Whole profession and then obviously the Things that are going on now which it's It's a con ly evolving thing um any Final thoughts you guys have I'm going To give you one that's kind of I think Over and encompassing a lot of the stuff We've discussed is athletic trainers are
Regulated in in uh 49 states in the United States the only one that's not We're not regulated in is California That needs to pass so we get the law Passed but athletic training has to be Accepted as being part of the medical Community not just part of the coaching Staff or support staff for athletes we Athletic trainers at that younger level But I think one of the things that People need to do you Dave you with your Nine-year-old kid your kids's got to Your kid has to enjoy what he's doing or She she's doing so that they stay in it Because if they don't usually by the Time time they're 13 14 years old They'll drop out and they'll do other Things but at the same time you can't Have the kid Playing a basketball and then playing For the high school team at the same Time because let's say the high school Kid gets hurt the athletic trainer says You got a spray anle you really should Sit down but goes out and plays a Basketball and nobody's protecting them Where is the the protection so keep Thinking of it as a medical community Not a medical profession not part of the Support staff 100% that's a that's a whole another Podcast too within itself hell yeah you You opened up part two for us John open Up P's box let's go because that that
Absolutely is almost it it it's it's Almost like an issue that from that Standpoint from the medical side with Like basketball for example right Playing high school basketball then Going to playing a that is like one of The like Norms that's going on now that Baseball too right all that stuff oh it Has to make it's obviously very Difficult not just for the the coaches But also for the athletic trainers Because you're like hey he this person Has a slight injury all of a sudden they Go playing a game right and they come Back and they have a greater injury yeah You're like what the hell like this is More like what happened here right we we Told you to do this and and that you're You're 100% right on that standpoint There's no there's no doubt about it That's another podcast because I bet you We could explore that for an hour and Not have an exact answer on that because It's so difficult um because you you're Battling multiple things on that Especially kid a highlevel athlete in Yeah in in the recruit the recruiting Process that becomes a whole another Animal that's hard to uh very very hard To navigate and has to be extremely hard To navigate in in the medical community Especially as an athletic trainer where Trying to balance all these things right Because they're they're the ones that
You're going to come to right they're G They're the ones going to report the First injury at the high school Standpoint and then they're the one You're the one that they're going to go And say you know by the way uh I got Hurt a little bit more at my a game and The coach is gonna be like what happened Well you're like I told him To take it a step further kid gets hurt Playing AE basketball then goes in to See the high school athletic trainer the Kid didn't get hurt at the high school Does is that a responsibility the High School athletic trainer to right so now Are you liable yeah all comes down to Liability yeah yeah which is we need a Lawyer get a lawyer on the podcast too Yeah that is that that's as complex as a Get absolutely that's a completely Comple and I I that well John you're Just going to have to become the head of The uh the trainers Association the National trainers Association so you can Start to solve those problems and we'll Be we'll be glad to be your consultant And and and bring up any questions that You might have to get answered for you I Appreciate That thank you so much guys I really Appreciate it have a good Thanksgiving Happy Thanksgiving yeah Thanks Happy Thanksgiving to you and all Your athletes coaches that pay attention
Yeah that's it there you go thank you so Much see you later guys see you later
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