Prospect Podcast – Former Head Coach of Pace Andy Rondeau

Prospect Podcast – Former Head Coach of Pace Andy Rondeau with Coach Schuman and Coach Depascale

Family around there in uh Massachusetts T talk about uh you know Your your career in coaching and playing And kind of I mean obviously you've You've been around uh a long time and Really have coached successfully for for Such a long stint of time uh with such Great success um but talk talk about Like kind of the Genesis of your career And and and kind of how you went through Kind of most of those Steps um Well here's what I think it was I just Touched on a little bit when I was a Young guy my dad died eight years old my Dad died so that was the Genesis that we Moved back to Massachusetts to be with My family my mother is amazing she's an Amazing woman she's 79 years old she's Tougher than K crusty boogers but I Always sought that male influence and That was what gave me structure and That's what got me going so you know and Fortunately you get to high school age And let let me just tell you something Okay okay certainly in this room in many Other rooms I'm the worst athlete in That room right there but I love team And I love ball so I got to high school And I was around a program and actually My brother was the coach of that program Up until the last year um it was Impactful to our family and we won Championships and we had success and we

Had lot watched a lot like in a small Town environment like you wouldn't see Anymore a lot of kids that went on to Play at a high level we had a kid who Went on to play baseball at LSU we had a Kid who played Major League Baseball for 20 years we had a kid who went to you Know Rhode Island New Hampshire and it Kind of doesn't happen that way in a Small town and Holliston Massachusetts Anymore you know they're G to get farmed Out to a place that would end up being You know maybe giv better prospects but That was my environment and if I was the Bottom guy on that list it was still Great for me to have team and structur So that was my first idea that I would Want to go to coaching okay so as you Can imagine nobody recruited me out of High school uh you know what I was at The bottom of that list I didn't think I Was worthy of all that so I decided to Go to Syracuse University in the late 80s and uh and I I bumped around college For a couple of years and I got mediocre Grades and I had good times but then Somehow I got on to being a manager at Syracuse And you know Paul pascone was an Assistant coach at the time and he Allowed me to be a manager and that Structure and anybody who knows Coach P Knows that he don't play and the same Thing was the case of the offensive

Coordinator George Deon got oh yeah and Uh you know these guys were on The Cutting Edge of building something from Nothing those type of things and those Role models and even those players like As I realized right there you know They'll treat you as you treat them if You put them on a pedestal they'll Accept it if you treat them as a peer They'll they'll be that there's some of My longest friends in my life and uh and Had a really cool time in Syracuse Football where they were you know dick Mcferson it was the springboard for him To go to the NFL um so that was it that I said okay This is the only thing in my life that I Enjoy this is the only thing that gives Me structure this is the only thing that Gets me motivated And I found that as a manager and I said I can't I bet I could do this as a coach Because I didn't know anything and so From there I figured out I say okay I Don't know how I figured it out but if I Would do the video that let me hang Around long enough to learn some Football and if when they were breaking The VCRs the 19 the the Panasonic VCRs And if I knew how to fix them okay I had Value in that keep me around and and Early coaches like uh Bob shup who's Been coaching a long time and Barry Gallop at nor Eastern a lot of really

Good coaches that Joe Gilbert who's Still coaching the NFL these young Coaches just kind of took me and and uh We were all young we were a young dumb And broke and it was a blast and we had Str learned and then somehow or other I Was able to get to Pittsburgh and again You know Johnny major was the head Football coach and and and uh Kurt Signet was the recruiting coordinator at The time of Indiana Fame and guys like Bob babich and Tim Lewis who's the Defensive coordinator at Boston College Now all these guys would deal with the Knucklehead that I was because maybe I Could help in a different way and they Took me under their wing and it's kind Of early there really wasn't a model for A guy who wasn't an ex-player to be a Football coach there there really wasn't Many of those or if they were there Wasn't the internet to know about them So kind of an And U so that was pretty formative and Then I kind of got this opportunity of a Lifetime all of those were and really You look at those and say why is a Manager gon to get the coach at nor Eastern or why is this guy from nor Eastern gonna get to be a ga for Johnny Majors well then I got the next one Where I get my first full-time job at North Dakota State and that's a Household name now but at that point in

Time it wasn't it was a regional program And I didn't know anything about it and I had taken this approach and I said Well I'm gonna go here for one year and I'm going to get a better job well I Stayed a lot longer than that I met my Wife there I bought my first house there And I'm still waiting to find a better Job than that one right now so and then Those guys that I got to work with and There's a guy named Bob babich who Coached the NFL after that for a long Time Gus Bradley was the d-coordinator And he's been a d-coordinator and a head Football coach in the NFL Todd wash is a Defensive line coach in the NFL Scotty Hazelton was my roommate and he's the Defensive coordinator at wake Force now Really really really good so I got all Of these guys that were really good to Me and could see through my knucklehead That there was something there that I Would work and that I and uh they just Gave me a chance to grow so I mean look It that took about 12 years to end up Having schooling and end up growing and Kind of polishing as a coach and that's Kind of how it started started and then From there it ended up being that you Know my opportunities would come if I Would go to a place that didn't have Anything and it would provide me Opportunity so if I went from North Dakota state to Tennessee Martin because

They hadn't won a conference game in Seven years but they needed a defensive Coordinator so I could go and learn There and screw up full speed and it was Going to be okay as I develop or you go To the university at buff who's Transitioning from uh onea or FCS Football into division one and you get That opportunity or you go to the University of main as the Special Teams Coordinator because and I'd never done That before i' never coordinated all the Special Teams before but maybe based on Track record and energy that I have I Could go and do that and being able to Take a salary like that or go to Old Dominion where they didn't have football And start a program from scratch so I've Had all these cool Opportunities to grow when I got no Business for most of them I got no Business you know so and somebody say Okay well here's a place that needs to Get better there's a guy that wants to Do it and if I bust my tail then uh and Screw up full speed and and you know Learn as I go I know too long right There fellas no no it was great it was Great you know you know you brought up a Really great Point too about Which is now as you know um there's a Path for guys who did not do not play in College or are you know not really going To have an opportunity and decide to

Become like a student coach maybe They're in like a year as a walkon and They realize that you know they're their Career as an athlete is not going to go Much further um you see a lot more of When when you when you did it it wasn't A thing it was really guy played in College Goes in G or and then follows the kind Of the path but now you see a large Presence of guys that either come in to College right away like as like a Student assistant or a manager some some Different role to be able to learn the Game while they're in college and then Come out literally out of college with Jobs right or guys who came in maybe Played a year and then at the end of Their High uh College Um as they're getting towards the end of Their education help out as a student Assistant get a get a job that has Become an and you see head coaches all Over you know I think it's AR I think It's Arizona's head coach you know Didn't play in college and and and There's a lot of guys now um you I guess You you you started uh uh you're one Mike but you and that obviously Mike Leech was a famous name with respect to That like was put out there that didn't You know play in college any football um What is it what is it about that you've Seen like with the opportunities that

Happen now for younger coaches that they Don't have to they could actually choose Coaching as an actual career because Back when you started that wasn't really Like kind of a thought process as a Career no you know uh you're right you Know there were some things that were Clear back then right you could know What the path was to get to be a coach Okay if you could get yourself a Part-time job as a coach right there and Then you get a graduate assistant well You had a pretty good chance of getting A full-time job and that was pretty Clear path and now I'm not quite so sure What the path is well the path is open To a lot of different people and there's So many different roles now okay you got A GM and you got somebody you've got the Recruiting facet of it and you've got The coaching facet of it and anymore it Seems like Uh if there is maybe a DB coach well he Is the assistant DB coach so they're Backed up they got a depth chart that he Could step into that role and uh you Know there's so much more of it like I Think it's like getting in the front end Of Silicon Valley you know it has Bossom it's huge money now and there's Large Investments and there's a million Different paths and uh you know it Doesn't really matter so long as you Know what's the million stories of the

Guys who just decided they were going to But bust their ass and create value and End up being smart and they make value And they grow it doesn't really matter Anymore no you're right and the amount Of money that's in football in general Is so enormous yeah um that uh it's Funny because when the when players Started to get Paid uh in college the the thought Process initially was well would there Be enough funds to continue to spit Around but what's actually happened is That just there's just been in more and More of an influx of funds so it's not It's like an it's like an afterthought Of of that part especially for the Biggest schools obviously um where There's just so much money flowing into Those programs that uh the player fund Does not take away from anything else That's going on it just actually uh Increasing I think the interest of Getting more fundraising going and they End up fundraising for more different Things than they would before because um Because they're fundraising partially For the players which is which is wild I Mean it's not something that I would Have ever thought would go in that Direction yeah like uh it's an arms race Okay if you are going to be a big 10 Football team okay then there is a price To pay for facilities there is a price

To pay for what you're going to invest In your players there is a general staff Layout that's reasonably consistent that When you pull up those teams on the web Page right there it looks like a Corporate America setting there's 40 50 People in that Environment and it seems like those People are okay with that being the cost Of doing business or figuring out how to Do business at that cost you know hey This is what we've identified as Whatever team it is in the Big 10 or the SEC or the ACC it seems like there's a Mark for all of that and you know early On there was talk about that like you Talked about Dave okay with the nil Investments maybe we need to cut back Off these people that are uh uh Supplemental staff that doesn't seem to Have happened maybe but it seems like There's more of those guys than ever Before I mean look you can look at College rosters now and we talk about it All the time I mean if you see one now That doesn't have a GM as a title and he Getting paid the most money you know It's and and it's we we talk about it All the time how things trickle down Right and it starts with you know your Blue Bloods your big wigs at the top and Then before you know it like that's the You know that's how everybody wants to Go about it because if they're doing it

At the highest level and winning that's What I'm going to do right it's a Copycat world espe football everybody's You know I've never had a Reginal idea In my life I just steal from everybody Else and the first thing I do is I look At the guys that are winning and that's Like okay if they do it and then you Take it and you tweak it but you see now You know you used to go through those College rosters click on coaches and you Know there was every position had a Coach now all of a sudden you get below When those coaches end there's another 40 names and those guys are really more Important doing you know a lot of the Work and what comes to But it comes down to you know the money Aspect of things too like like Dave said It like college football's grown and and And the money that comes from it and I Believe players should get paid but There needs to be some type of you know We need parameters when it comes to kind Of this stuff you know what I mean like And I get it because but it's this is What it is right and it really comes Down to this though this stuff's been Going on for years but now that it's out In in the open and with social media and All those other kind of things that's What everybody sees and that's what they Think everything is like That it's hard D I could tell you that

It's not that at Pace University rare rare rare rare rare ER That you get to that and and to double Back on some of your thoughts right There okay if you take the drama out of It and the fit and all that you know I'm Dying to see what happens at North Carol In because it would seem like there's a Group that said hey let's take our model That we kind of revolutionize the NFL With and let's take it to another market And see how it works I watched this Documentary last night it's one of those Football documentaries it's about the 95 Browns and Bill bellich and all of those Guys and names that you know that were Babies at that point in time yeah Scot Pioli Michael B uh Phil Savage da d d And it's it's a murderer row of what Football was for the next 20 to 30 years So now what they're going to take that And then they're going to try it in College and so what's everybody else Doing with their GM position well There's an organization that said hey We're hiring a GM a real GM and there's Other people are doing it other way it's A great I I mean it's like watching a Rivetting game or a show that you really Like I can't wait to see what comes next Can't wait you Know it it's wild uh uh you're right and How each group is using their different People and their different roles like if

You go on to um a coaching staff list on You know where they list the coaches and What they do and their you know their Their contact information and if you go From one school to the next which I I'm I I do often because I work with like Kids are trying to help them get Recruited and from one school to the Next it's so vastly different right and Then when I talk to like well I'll talk To a coach and I'll say hey so this you Know one group over here still has some Level of the old model where the co the Position coach will still look at it and Then some other guys are like no like I'm just GNA pass it right over to the Recruiting guy and he's gonna filter This like no matter who you send me you Know um I'm not looking I'm passing it Right over to the recruiting guy right And um it's so interesting how all the Different models are the funny part is Explaining it to parents because parents Like they they Think it's like when I played you know In the 9s you know like this guy does This and this guy does this and you know There's only nine guys on you know 10 Guys on the staff and that that's how Their mind works they can't uh and what You you said is really poting especially At the highest level but even even at Lower levels there's some version of it It's like Corporate America okay like

Try and Sell uh your widget to the Walmart Executives and figure out who to Navigate Walmart right to try to find Who the person is that's responsible for Handling your widget you know what I Mean and that's kind of what you're Doing and part of it's intentional right Because they they have the groups that They want to work with and they have Groups and part of it is Um part of it is let's see how much this Person really wants to play here uh you Know is this if this person really Thinks they're good enough they're going To jump through the Hoops necessary but When you explain that the the parents They'll be like uh oh you I'm like you Don't know how many like huddle links Like you said the Huddle link what yeah Good luck that's so 2010 like I don't Know how to say it any other way it's Like you said the hudle link I mean People said Mass hudle links in 2010 you know like that that's that You're gonna have to do a little more Than that unless it says within your Hudle link six foot five you know Alongside of that that that then that'll Go right to the proper channels um but If if it says any you know oh my kid is 6 foot one okay well that's that's big Enough to play depending on the position At the highest level uh but there's a

Lot of 6 foot1 people in the world right So uh that that there's gonna have to be A lot more than that right so um and it It's very it's very very Interesting uh how college football's do But you you nailed it when you said it's Kind of like Corporate America because There's a navigation process when you're An employee within Corporate America That is required as well right there's a Way to navigate me and dererk were just Talking about that there are some guys That we we say like that are in college Football that I don't know if they know Anything but they know how to navigate The system they really are good at Navigating the system make sure the Coaches that they work for they take They do the job that's necessary but They may not be really quote unquote a An exceptional coach but they know how To do what's necessary within the system You know we're just discussing that Earlier yeah and all those things that You said hey are are they on the super Old model where a coach recruits an area Nope they've evolved to where the coach Uh goes and recruits his position coach Nope the coaches just sign off on what The recruiting department said right There and they they're in the the most Evolved model in the most NFL like model Where there is a Personnel department And a coach Department you know it's

Wild and then you know like you Said it's not all about coaching anymore There's different things that you could Be a recruiting expert you could be Really connected with the players you Could be really uh uh dialed in with a Community or in a recruiting and you Have value to these organizations and There's a role for you because like you Said it's not what it used to be well There's nine full-time coaches and the Head coach and there's a couple of Slappy gas in there and the video guy And uh you know it's not that anymore no So there's all kinds of ways to rise and Uh you know you're right you know if you Hold it to that old standard and say Okay this is what I think a football Coach Is there's all kinds of different models Right now you know yeah pretty cool I Mean look there's guys that just are Really good at social media and it's Like hey you're going to handle our our X page and Instagram and all this other Stuff and you know it's it's all like Everything adds a bit of a benefit right It all because you got to look at kind Of like what the kids and what our guys That we're recruiting what do they see What are they into what's the new Niche Type of thing you know it's how do I Find that how do I get to to that Cutting Edge how do I do it before

Someone else does it you know what I Mean but what's great about this game Though is that some point you gotta play Football right and gota come back and You you have to football is a game that Will expose you really quickly if you Don't you know so you can fake it until You can't fake it anymore and I think That's what's great is it's always gonna Come back to that but getting there Totally different process point right There like um even in the little world Of being a division 2 football coach you Know there ends up being a lot of things A lot of different things than uh a a Power four coach would have to doal with But a lot of different things but at the End of the day football practice is like Recess football practice is the reason We do it in the football games man those 10 12 days a year that's what we're Jumping through all these hoops for and At the end of the day it Bears out Whether all of those different dire hey Okay you got a great social media Profile does that translate to the field Can we project it to translating to the Field you know it's so cool you know I Don't know like uh you know you look at It right now and you speak to those guys I spoke to a guy on Friday he said uh We've got 50 new players at the midy Year through the transfer Port he's got 50 new players so okay and he said it

Matter of factly it reminded me of back What like in 2014 where tackling was changing in College and a lot of people were in an Uproar about it and a guy like Pete Carol said it ain't going back let's Embrace it let's go and he ended up Making that The New Normal or at least Being the mouthpiece for that be the new Normal and the same thing for this guy That I was speaking to who who is at a Group of four school he's just like yeah This is the new normal let's go and he Didn't and I think that's got to be it If you think that you have to know oh no We got all these transfers how are we Going to keep our Culture figured out let's go yeah Isn't that your job isn't that your job Right like or if you want to keep that Job you better figure it out and and the Only thing I think now is the windows Are close like tighter you don't have as Much time anymore right like because Guys want to win now but we also live in A society of instant gratification and That's hard with football because there Is a level of you got to develop and you Have to trust what we're doing to see Down the road you kind of you mentioned It coach like football's the ultimate Team sport where you need 11 individuals To get it all together and work for 12 Games a year this ain't basketball we're

Playing three times a week this ain't Soccer where it's games games games You're doing the hard work majority of The time in practice that's tough for a Lot of these guys to grind it out like That right right and then if they do Have success immediately they want to be On see You that's that's a great it happened at The place I was guy has a good year you See him come into your office you go Okay I know where this is going right Here you know even at little old places Like that you know a and they're they're Gonna have to be willing to figure Out um and and and you have experienced Like they have to be willing to figure Out what are administrations willing to Handle because you may nail it as a Coach and win a championship literally Win a championship look look at Florida State right and then the next year you Are poached graduation all all stuff and In one season you're not a good team but It hasn't changed you as a coach it Means that you might you you might need Another year to retool that whole roster Again so nobody knows exactly the time Frame turnarounds that are necessary to Like build a program is it one year is It now two year right it's not four Years anymore right is it is it can you Do it in one look even even Dion who was Like turned over the roster really quick

It didn't take the second year he had Success it really he really even though He turned it over the way he turned it Over thought it would be an immediate Thing it was really the second year that He was starting to have more success and Then after the second year now he's got To retool it again because he's G have To turn the whole entire roster over Again and he may go back to being really Not good next year and then maybe the Next year he's good what are willing Administrations willing to handle right Like obviously at Ohio State in Michigan They're not really willing to handle too Much of it I I think the Michigan Coach caught a break in that he beat Ohio State Because it's it's hard in my opinion to Expect every single year to nail Recruiting when you're turning it over In a one-year process like you are half The time now right there are years You're going to completely nail it you Brought it all the right guys they fit Really well um you made the right you Know chest moves on the on during the Season you play like Yukon for example Where where I played that like we do a Show on them MOA dude he he made all the Right chess moves for the most part this Year but the question is will you make The right chess moves next year right so It it it's um part of it is the Players

You're bring in right so it's it's Really really interesting and and my big Question is is like how do you you know How do you what is the philosophy and Every place may be different but what is The philosophy when you come in because The word Development is kind of at the highest Level now division two and division Three I maybe and I I'm I'm you know I Think you're right like guy goes and Catches 60 balls he's out of there you Know like like I you could he can love Your score all he wants he catches 60 Balls you know unless he really really Loves that place he's probably out of There moving up to the next level but But the thing the whole the whole thing Is this to me basketball became in America very big push to the next place You can go and Europe was very big on Even though they have Pros earlier in Europe that that soccer culture where We're developing helping you within the Organization for a very very long period Of time we kind of own your rights you Know we we saw you were good at 11 we Own your rights you're all the way Through to you're like 17 18 then we Start selling your rights to this club Or that club but you're coming over you See like the Don chicks and the jokes of The world having a lot of success with With most people argue not quite as much

Ability maybe athletically there is Big Obviously you have to have a certain Level of height and all that kind of Stuff in basketball but athletically as Some of the American players and they're Able to compete be be just just as good In some cases better um uh because the Model of development is starts as a Whole thing well football we're moving a Lot more towards this American Basketball culture which is get them as Good as they can right now get to the Next organization get to the next Organization get to the next Organization and how much they get Developed and how much of it is really Their ability right their ability to to You know um and in the long run does That end up hurting certain aspects of The game as far as about and the problem Is we may we may not know the difference You know what I mean until because the Rest of the world doesn't really play Football but I think Europe showed it in Basketball that like American basketball As far as their development of Basketball players has taking a step Back not athletically and not what they Could do ath from an athletic standpoint But as far as from from a game Standpoint moving without the ball Setting things up and and I think about Football in that aspect of like what's The incentive for a coach to develop him

Even in high school right you could jump To the next high school you know I think How do we manage That you know your your your point is Big it's a big audacious point right There Right so um I trying to think of the Things look at Ryan Day right now from a Staff standpoint right now and he just Won a national uh championship and it Doesn't look like wind it back was a Conversation in the staff room you know What I mean right and um and okay that's What it is there's uh a guy who has uh Worked with me at uh Old Dominion and he Was my coordinator here at the last stop At PACE for one year and he is a power Four defensive coordinator and he looks At the moves he makes almost like okay I Gotta figure out are we gonna be good Next year or do I have to move yeah you Know he has to look at and say okay are We G to be good this year or do I have To move or we were good this year I Gotta make hey well the sun is shining And make that Move and and it that concept of Developing hanging On there's development that's going on I Got there's another kid that I coached At North Dakota state who's the Defensive coordinator at Buffalo Bills And he'll talk about it all the time he Said there's a ton of guys that develop

In the NFL it just isn't sexy to talk About you know yeah and that kid may not Hang on long enough to develop fast Enough for the pace required at that Place and that's where you probably look At it at the highest highest levels well There's probably develop M that goes on And we see the product of their Development whether it's because they Had a good season and they hit the Transfer portal and they came in more Developed into their next environment You know but it's totally the unsexy Thing who wants to hear that hey you got To develop who wants to hear that in This day age hey you gotta work you know Hey you got to handle this stuff right Like that just that's not what it's That's not what they that's not it it Like because I because I can't post that I can't I can't show that on Instagram And get and get those likes and get Those clicks I can't get that you know It's rare to find the guy that's willing To just you know almost go silent and You know kind of guys now like you know Some of the high school guys like got Sometimes like it's cool to be uncool You know like if you just want to go and Do your thing because you have these Dreams and these aspirations like you Don't have have to be the guy with all The likes on and all the posts and all That other kind of stuff like you just

Buckle down and do what you're supposed To do and this process will feel it out For you but you have to do your part you Know and it's it's it's hard you know as A 15 16 year old kid where you know Everybody wants to be at the cool table You know I think it's a lonier trip too So one of the Things one of the things that I I just And I don't think you know younger kids Know it so it's not like you know it's Like uh it's like you know if you had Children you know you know what it feels Like that that to have a child right What what it is but if you don't have Children do do you actually you know I Know people don't have children right do They they don't really know what they're Missing per se right it's only when you So the kids today don't really know what They're missing it's not like you know We may know because we experienced it Right but they don't know it and it's One of the things I was reading that Like the the younger kid the kids Nowadays have a a kind of I I don't want To see lonelier approach to life but It's a Lo it is for lack of a better the Way I look at it is a lonelier approach To life right they they play games they Talk to people online that's you know Kind of to me it's not as much about Direct connection one of the only times They do have direct connection as kids

Is when they play on sports teams um but They they hop around the sports team so Journey seems to be a loner Journey Whereas like if me and Derek played in High school together from the time we Were young you know on youth football we Essentially the know we would all the Way through High School we'd have 10 Years almost together to develop a lot Of different things and then if we Played in college uh if if if I went to A college they played with those guys You have four or five years now these Kids are on mostly one to twoe Journeys From the time they're young kids as Everything so it's not even a thought Process so where we we think hopping Around is a big deal I I I told D this Derek laughed at this when I told him This my son plays college he's nine Plays college football the uh The Game And his favorite thing is at the end of The season because they put they built It right into the game My Guy rushed for 1100 yards that I made and he's Transferring from Nebraska to X right That's built into the game it's built Into the and that's what's tough for me To see it right because to me and the The team aspect was always just the best Part of it right and the camaraderie you Built within that locker room and all of Those kind of things that went you know You know we played the the games

Together and all that kind of stuff I Don't know if these guys get that Anymore because how do you develop that With in one two years you know it's Tough so let me ask you then okay where Is football at its purest right now Where is it at its purest right now Where can we go and eliminate all of the Sideshow stuff sexy stuff cool stuff I Want money I want fame I want attention I want gear but where is it the most Authentic right now is it high school is It big high school is it small College Where is it most authentic and where can A guy get that Genuine uh Experience that we're talking about Because I agree with you Dave you know What you can't tell a person he missed On something he made a choice and that's His life he doesn't know that green bean Salad is the best thing going right There he never had it before he doesn't Know he doesn't give a [ __ ] can I say That oh yeah you're good oh you're good Coach this ain't one of those Podcasts um but he people only know Their life that's all they know and we Could look at it and say ah you're Missing the gravy I did the same thing As you did my son is 12 he got the College game and he built the guy who's So proud of it and I was like what are You going to do he goes well he's going

To transfer dad you know that's what you Do and I was like my own kid my own kid Is like yeah what what do you think you Do of course you Know and and that and that's the the 100 You know that's a great question too by Way where's Pierce my guess my this is My guess my guess is if you're at a Small school in a small town that has Tradition like I I use uh Derek's high School as an example where he grew up in Okay because we've had a few of the Coaches from Butler on in New Jersey Which New Jersey is harder than maybe Some of the the the flyover states and And the Midwest and to to build the Culture the same way but I would say Within New Jersey Butler is among the Very few that has been able to maintain Its culture over time I would say maybe Cedar Grove might be another one I would Say is pretty close and there there's Probably you know a handful there's ones Right I I always think of man alipin and I think that's a place that has a lot of Culture they've had some coach turnover But it just seems like they hang on to That football in that Community is Important it's important part of that Right there and their affiliation with That and that base concept right there Of hey I'm in a community and it's Important to my community and not only Is it important to me and my teammates

And my parents and that's home that's Pretty cool you know yeah that's pretty Cool I'm sure I'm sure there's some Schools you know Texas wise that are I Thinking yeah absolutely you know but if We're and look it it's it's it's really Hard though because with you know just The way the country is people moving Right like relocation a lot of that Stuff Town turnover of you know it's not The same quote people you know anymore That stuff's really hard to get that Pure form you know of anything you know Let alone football where it's you know And the best public school like maybe The best public school in America in Football is Duncanville in Texas okay And Duncanville has a coach who's Probably the best Recruiter I'm amazed that someone Doesn't just I he's older now so that May be why but Uh he's the best recruiter Baran of Every place he's been along the way Because I've run so many camps down There when he went to Dunville all the Kids now in the area because Dunville is Like an open kind enrollment situation Uh where you could I I don't know Exactly how it works but you could pay Maybe a small so it's a huge huge uh School Community they all go there in Middle School the ones from the Surrounding areas they go they all go

There middle school to see if they're Good enough to be able to then play in High school at Duncanville then you have A an exodus of these kids in eighth Grade when they kind of realize okay you Know Dunville is legitimately every year Probably a top five team in Texas and um I'm not good enough at this point to Play you know to play here let me go Back to where I'm from or whatever but That's that's an example Le of where a Gigantic program in a very very football Oriented South you know south of Dallas Community has now leveraged the world That we're in to now make create a Superpower within a public school Situation and um it's it's it's wild Because I mean that would have when when Dunville went that coach came in the guy Who was there before was a legendary Coach Jeff dyus he was a legendary coach But he was a his his model was build it Within the community right was kind of Yeah yes a traditionalist right and he Had success but he could never get to The Mountaintop right and the coach who Came in after him was at Um before that he was at one of the Dallas Public Schools and he had done a Really really great job there but he was Only in the Dallas Public School was Only able to get like most of the inner City kids and he was limited to how far He was able to go but when he went got

To Dunville which is the suburbs of of Dallas he was able to go to the next Level with his kind of model which was The modern which was a modern model Which turned it into like a program that Was very good to a mega Powerhouse one Of the best in the you know top 20 Team Every year in the country and it's it's It's really interesting because it was a Transition from a big high school Smalltown model To same same program you know it's a 50,000 person town okay but now they're They're are monolith as far as because Of the way that they structured how they Were gonna uh uh win in football and It's you it's not a right or wrong Answer it's just it's just very Interesting to to how how that kind of Evolved and seen that seeing that from One talent and from one legendary coach To the next legendary coach you know Right that School of Choice stuff it Seems like that's a hot button Everywhere and maybe in Texas right now And then a coach sees that and he goes Either oh no or oh let's go you know and And to your point right there okay so It's pretty American right there you say Hey here's your circumstances you got to Stay within your confines and you can Only have the kids in your town that Doesn't seem like competitive you say oh You can do what you need to do to make

Sure that you build the most competitive Thing that that's seems like a model That we're familiar with in business Certainly in sports and other things So you know the kids who get screwed by It and it's adults that set the table And make the plan and the kids like you Said about what the kid only knows what He Learns and uh you know it just gets Really big really fast for a kid he gets Thrown into a competitive environment Before he's even physically mature and That's a lot and not like you said it's Not good it's not bad it's not right It's not wrong it's just a lot and uh You know how does a kid make it through That and does he have guidance of an Adult who gets it who who gets what it Is or do they just have a very narrow View of what it is or I only want this Or I only understand this fraction of it Or okay I understand the Dynamics and The politics and the it's a business and It's not just about your kid it's huge You know so how about you guys so how do You do it where you run a business That's has a portion of it where it's Parent relations and you're trying to Explain to them all what you we're we're Doing a podcast talking about this and Touching on seven Parts about this and We've done this every day for all the Years right there and then there's a

Family that comes in and says here's What we want how do you educate them and Get them to hear the truth about whether It's their kid the environment what it Is how do you do that I I think it's I Think it's very difficult I think you Know one of the uh interesting things Is you know one of the things I do like When I work with parents is I ask them a Ton of questions about what their Objectives are and is there a I I I get The I get the the dream objective I get It okay what is if you settled Somewhere what is an acceptable Settlement level where and that tells me Not and I I I always Hey listen we're Going to go after dreams but I want to Know what ex acceptable siment level is That usually tells me where their head Is right because if they say like I Don't know let's say a kid says to a Parent says to me I want my son to go to The highest level of ball they can to The and the best academic school which Is like you usually most people's kind Of thought process but that's what they Say me and I say okay will we go through It and that let's let's use Duke what Does that look like what is that is that Duke is that Duke is that Northwestern What is that all right let's say they Say it's like Duke and North yeah Duke And Northwestern you nailed it that's What it is okay great Duke and

Northwestern which everybody wants to Probably go to if they're a really good Athlete who's smart right so um or Stanford right so you get there Now those schools don't recruit You but John's Hopkins recruits you or Amers recruits you and we go through This whole process and we we T dig up Every stone and we reach out to all These schools and we get to the point Where they're just those are the schools That are recruiting you if you can go to John's Hopkins or Amherst or Williams Will you be happy And if they say to Me the other schools are my dream but Yeah those are great schools and my kid Gets the opportunity to play there and It doesn't and and and you know the we We exhausted everything and that's where He goes yes we'll be thrilled then I Know that's someone I could work with You know what I mean I I could work with That person if they tell me it's two Northwestern Stamford or Bust unless they walked in and they were 6'6 okay I would say that going to it's Going to be Pro you're probably going to Be unhappy in the process I I you're You're going to be unhappy and I always I I I always point to like there was an Article when I came out in 1992 and I Signed with Yukon and there they did the The record uh when newspapers actually

Did articles they did a whole article on A lot of the a lot of the players from That time and they did it they covered Me Eric Lane who went to Tennessee um I think Zeke Rogers who Also went to ukah with me and and then I Can't remember another player that went Division one and um but they asked a lot Of the article was on me because I had This roller coaster because I went to a Small school and I was being heavily Recruited By every school of the country and then It it dropped off the face of the Earth And then late all these schools FCS came In and offered a couple small division Ones but but I went FCS and they all Came in late and it was kind of like a Rocky process where you thought were Going big time and then you weren't and Then you thought you may not even have a School that you get a scholarship to all Of a sudden I had a bunch of scholarship Offers at the FCS level and they covered It and what I thought was really Interesting was my answer to the Questions my answers to the questions Were much like I would any other 18-year-old at the time would answer Questions like I thought that this was Going to happen and then this ended up Happening but I'm happy about the the The uh where I am because you know I Have an opportunity to get a scholarship

But you got the lukewarm Vibe for me When you listen read the article the Vibe was this process was not what I Thought it was going to be that was if You read the article you would come out And say his process was not what he Thought it was gonna be and that's the Truth but at the end of the road you saw Contentment and happiness with the Opportunity so I think about it I think You know what like that's that's how I Was at this kid as a kid I had these These Dreams of where I was going to go It looked like it might go in that Direction it did not go in that Direction but I still had opportunity For success and I was lucky enough that I and I worked hard and I had success as A player but I think a lot of players Fall into that category a Huge huge swath of players no matter What level they are they fall into very Few players fall into the you know five Star category almost none right and Those are the only ones that to come out Those four and five stars with this Experience that they felt like they were Recruited properly okay but everybody Else including guys that have 10 offers Still walk away feeling like I should Have had this offer I should have had That but what is their mindset going Into the next place is their mindset That I got the opportunity and let me

Take advantage of the opportunity or are They like hey I'm not you know this I'm I'm just going here to play because this Is my only place to go and usually what Happens is those kids wash out and those Those those are people you don't want to Recruit you don't want to recruit the uh Someone that's coming to you out of Mal Content it's like it's like when you Have to convince someone to come out for The for the team for for the high school Football team you say you know he looks Like he could play and you're convincing And you're convincing him and finally he Relents and then he's never happy when He's there you're better off not having Him 100% are you a solution or are you a Consolation you know if you're a Consolation prize ah probably not gonna Work out hey who is your coach was it Tom Jackson or was it skip Holz or both Both both who was your recruiter uh my Recruiter was Rashard I don't know if You remember him Dave Rashard it was uh Steve Rashard oh no yeah he was so when Tom Jackson got fired who who just Passed away about a week or so ago um oh Yeah yeah when he when he when Tom Jackson got fired he never coached again I don't know if you know this but he Never I did he said rode off into the Sunset he he had been at Yukon for a Minute too right yeah he was there for a 10 11 year I think maybe at first as an

Assistant then became the head coach um When he got fired he never coached again Steve Rashard left went to high school Coached at high school for a long time Um but he W he was my recruiter and uh And then with then skip came in um and I Play uh skip changed my position from Fullback to linebacker played there for Him start at Lineback for him but um but Two totally I mean man we talk about two Totally different philosophies yeah um It's uh but yeah I mean skip obviously He's had up and downs but for the most Part great Success long successful career yes right A quiet long and successful career where He's still crushing it in the UFL or Whatever ever is he's still crushing it There you know and he whatever at Louisiana you know he's had a quiet long Fruitful career it it's pretty amazing Because um uh somebody asked me uh the Skip still coach I'm like yeah he's he's The UF yeah he's won three he's won Three UFL championships but he he it's Interesting because his father obviously Is bigger than life and you I've have Met him a couple of times and even Though he's a little tiny guy but bigger Than life and um uh and and you know That's one of those things where some Sometimes uh he kind of started to Choose a path when he was he got fired At Louis after Louisiana Tech when he

Got fired there he kind of already had Made the decision when he was going to Louisiana Tech that he was he chose Louisiana Tech because he was looking to Coach division one football but I don't Think he wanted to be anymore at the uh Um yeah you know the things that you had To deal with at the top top right um and He had been through a couple things but Then then after Louisiana Tech it was Just I think it was hey I need a I need A break from this and that opportunity Came along yeah and and he and he and he Show you know did very well in the Opportunity I my guess is that I'm Curious to see if he comes back to College Football or or what I've what I've heard Him say in some interviews is that he Would probably go to the NFL as a an Assistant before going back to college Football from from my understanding just Because he a lot of these guys are Making yeah yeah you know like you're Seeing a lot of these guys I mean look Your buddy right Jeff Hatley Boston College head co no I'll go be a DC in The league you know you Know I just don't know we we're talking About these expansions of college Coaching rosters and whatnot and all the Things you have to deal with it you know The that NFL you know free agency is free agency

Man if the numbers aren't there and the Year contracts up like you know when They're leaving or you know that stuff Like college I don't know if that is the Way it is you gota we talk about it all The time you're re-recruiting your guys Every single day that are there for you In college I don't know Jeff like that but do you Think that's what Jeff signed on to when He got into coaching and he was a fast Riser at Ruckers in Pittsburgh he was a Fast Riser and then he is at Ohio State And then all of a sudden he's the head Football coach at Boston College do you Think that's what he said yeah this is What I want to be doing right here Battling my tail off at a heart Academic School in the ACC and fighting for That's not Really I don't know my take is you know Jeff way better than I do I just know of Him right there he's ball coach he wants To coach football does he want to do Things like that instead of I had a Conversation with Jeff I had a Conversation with Jeff um because I was sending some Players when he was at Boston College and uh I got I got this message Like um hang tight I'll let you know in A little bit and then basically we we Saw the interview with brenaman and That's when we're like oh and and he

Jump and he jumped and he's like yeah Then he that he messaged me that you Know this was after it was already out But he said he said yeah you know I just It it Wasn't it wasn't what he wanted to be His college head coaching experience as A guy who was in college all those years And he was known as a great recruiter That was really not just a Deor but he was known as a great Recruiter and I think because I sat with Jeff when he was at Ruckers when I was Running all those camps all over the Country Jeff used to come in Shan used To send them in he would sit down we Would go over to players that would come Through the events and be like do you Think this kid's Ruckers marcario do you Did this kid come through and we would Go he was so good he was so detailed That he would actually come to my office And would want to go through it like do You have an hour I'm coming down there Do you have an hour I could go through Some of these players with you Absolutely GL yeah you know glad to do It and that's how detailed he was but he Loved coaching and he loved the Relationship building of recruiting like He wanted to know who those guys were so He could build the relationship with the Players that he would then coach and I Think that I think in his head he was

Already in the NFL because I remember When he he was great when he was at San Francisco when I I was an a NFL agent For six years I would send if I had Fringe guys he listen he would take him Into mini camp it was you know he was Into building relationships you know What I mean like that was his thing he's Like as long as this kid comes in and Competes you know what I mean he's GNA He'll you're one of your I know it's one Of your guys I'm gonna give him an Opportunity you know and he that's who He was so when he went back to the NFL To me it was Like he just wants to work with guys Coach them because the part that he Thought was great about college football Which was the development and Relationship part of it in his mind that Was probably gone and I might as well coach ball develop the Guys that come in my room I get to know Them a little bit more in depth because They're NFL players they're men you know I could talk to them as men and it's no You know I'm not going to be able to do That change a kid's life type of thing The way that I once could change a kid's Life by having him a part of my program I think that you know and I'm speaking For because this is come out of his Mouth but this is just from you know Just seeing how he is and knowing him

Over the years but think that is the Crossroads of the conundrum that all These coaches are going through right Here this right I think in that last Year or two yeah I think that's like This Willow window right coach like you Know not the like just saying I think This is like a time period where you're Right it's getting Squeezed and whether it's at the top of The chart right there whether it ends up Being the head coach at Alabama or Whether it ends up being the guys who Say ah I'm coaching for the money I Never thought I'd say I'm coaching for The money you know and uh You know it's just a wild time it's a Wild wild time in this profession here We go like here's the uh Angry old man On the porch yelling at the kids playing In the yard but I cannot believe you Know 34 years ago when I got into it Sure I was certainly young and dumb but I never ever saw this I never Saw not even 10 years ago would I say oh Okay this is where it's headed right There listen coach five years ago yeah Yeah Yeah I bet you this if you're a player Okay and like you said with your son Said about changing schools the pressure On them to take the money if they're Good enough right they're out of school And they do really well and you know I'm

I'm playing for you and I have a great Year and some guy says to me affiliated With the program says Hey listen if you Get in the portal I'm going to give you 5K just to get in the portal so we could See if we're fit for you like and you Have no money and then you're in this But I love this school and then you're In so you're in this conundrum from that Standpoint so it's but now listen this To me it's one of the things like I say This to parents and and I say this to Players Okay when and and because before I Started my own you know companies in Sports and coached I was in Corporate America and I saw the Young age I Rose Really quick really quick in Technology Field and I was say like like I was like A I was a perfect fit for it like I Really was like boom boom boom boom rose Up really quick at a young age and and Understood technology and I chose the Right majors in in in grad school and um And then I shifted I went to co coach High School sports and my father's a Still a high school coach and um Crazy yeah and uh um and I said you know What I I want to have a business where I'm helping kids and I would have never Dawned to me just like you I would have Never Dawn to me because I would I I Tell you the truth I wouldn't have Shifted careers the truth is this I was

In Corporate America and I was making a Boatload of money very quick I would Have not have changed careers if I knew That Sports was going to be the exact Same way as Corporate America which is Good listen I'm I'm a capitalist I think That people should have the opportunity To make as much money Mone as they want To make I think but it but um you know Aligned with your values you got to Figure out where your values are as a Person right so for me I like hey I I Realized this was more of my value than Just going and making as much money as I Possibly could which I was say like I Was pretty good at it like I could have Probably did that but um but it was Amazing because I would have never Thought Sports would go into that Direction you know and this was around The 2000 time period I would have never Thought that Sports would into the exact Direction and I tell pilotes all the Time it's like listen when you take Money okay there's some important things You have to know about when you take Money there are a expectations of you When you take money right there are true Expectations you can say oh when you run Scholarship that your coach expects you To do great and blah blah blah blah Listen there's a difference when you're Getting paid when you're getting paid They al the person in charge also

Believes they have the right to fire you Right yes so it's not just you're Getting I'm paying you to do a job I Also you also have the right to be fired If you're getting paid to do a job okay So when a coach is disappointed in you For not playing well and you're on Scholarship that's one thing he still Probably likes you he's just Disappointed in how you're performing Thinks you could do better when he's Disappointed in you and and you're Getting $100,000 oh but and the booster that is Giving you 100 giving you $100,000 is telling the head coach that This kid has to play first before you go To the next guy okay if he fails okay You could go to the next guy but he goes In first right so now with if you do Fail or you throw an interception or man That pressure is a different type of Pressure okay it's not like the pressure Like when Patrick Mahomes is 25 years Old 26 years old 27 years old under that Pressure he's a much more mature Individual than a 1920 year old and People can say whatever they want about It but the truth is a 19 and 20 year old Uh figuring that out is very very Different than Patrick Mahomes or or Josh Allen if you I bet you if you asked Them those guys if they were getting Paid $200,000 and get and and threw an

Interception when they were 19 how they Would have handled it versus now where They know how to handle it right from From becoming an adult and they have Families and so on and so forth right Yeah they they start to understand the Priorities you take that money there's An expectation and that's one of the Things that parents I want that money Okay you want that money you're gonna Also gonna get criticized no longer is The media gonna treat you as a Scholarship player they're no they're Gonna treat you like a pro and you're Gonna have to take those bullets and You're gonna have to sit up there and Face the noise and that's the other Thing you know all the good that comes With this social media and now Everybody's G to be able to say what They're saying in the stands that you Can only hear a little bit of it they're Gonna post that on your little tweet or Whatever you show out there and when you Don't come to freaking deliver on what This is dude they're gonna let you know Right and and how fast that changes Right that's I think the biggest piece Of it is the speed at which all of this Stuff now happens it is fast turnover Right like love you this week and the Next day I love you so much now and I'm Gonna let you know about it and how do You handle that right like a lot more

Coing that get done in this space now at 19 19 right we watch all these NFL Quarterbacks that end up in the NFL too Soon after three years and we end up Saying oh he didn't Thrive or he took a Longer he had to get to the second Contract but then you watch these guys Who went to the full length of time okay He finished after 5 years no he had a CO Year and oh look it they're a little bit More productive they're a little bit More resilient they're a little bit more Ready to go oh is it physical Development no it's the space between Your years and you know I don't know About you all but I waited till I was in My early 30s to get married because I Was nowhere near mature enough to make Any kind of decision like that and end Up having any level of responsibility Like that and that's a lot That's a lot of responsibility you know It's a lot you're trying to figure out Yourself let alone everything else you Know what I mean to navigate those Borders are it is difficult and you're Talking about you know you know Dave and I had kids later in life too right like I have a two-year-old like not even a Two-year-old right now and believe me I Sure as hell wouldn't be able to deal With a lot of the stuff that at that age To try to think about having to be in These situations make those decisions

Absolutely not like just not ready for It you know I think that's that self-awareness stuff And and Coach coaching at a level like You did where you don't have the shrink On staff right like you're wearing that Hat too you know I had a couch in my Office that's what we had I had a couch You could come in and visit with me About it you Know come on sh down we're talking Through let that that's but that's also Coach like I think there's something to Be said for that too right like playing At those levels right because you know I Was an FCS guy played at sacrart for a Year and then transferred back to Montclair State and and believe me like The conversations I would have with my Head coach at Montclair I don't know if I could have had at that FCS level at Sacred har you know in that time frame Like I just wasn't comfortable having Those but to to have a coach that was You know willing to talk about so much More than football right and really kind Of help me develop as to who I wanted to Be as you know a man man an employee a Father a husband you know all those kind Of things like I just owe that so much More to him than any freaking Blitz he Dialed up for me you know those are the Kind of things that you take back and Now you know guys don't stay long enough

To even develop those relationships or Are they even genuine you know they Expect it right now you'll finish with The Freshman after a year and they said Coach you don't even know me I go I know I know you know I'm I'm not really supposed to Buddy Like I'm not supposed to yet around each Other every day but you just got here And I'm just learning you give it a Chance give it give it some time we Hadn't even hit an offseason where the Rigors of a normal practice week or a Pre-season where it's Po yeah no and then sit I I will know You but not you know not yet that's a Great point I I wonder I'm curious your Thoughts on this Do you think that there will be a lot of Kids that could have gotten to the Mountaintop that if they had the time to Develop could have gotten to the Mountaintop that are going to completely Wash out of the football system because Of what Happens uh with where it where they're Asking you to basically be ready Now no matter where you are because they Know you're probably going to hop right So there are kids that are Not ready for the pressure but will be Two years from now are not ready for the Pre then in my opinion is that some of Them are never gonna ever get the

Opportunity to know if they can get There you know and I I think that that's The crazy part of this system we're Washing out possibly a lot of great Players and then some of these players That are Peak early okay so the player You want the player that's peing early Okay so you you go and you have to rec You're forced to recruit the guy that Could Peak at 19 and 20 but at 23 he may Not be the best guy or 22 he may not be The best guy like his cap and then he Ends up washing out too that's the crazy Part so you're you're washing out guys That you don't know can get there okay Yet because because we're not going to Develop and then you're taking guys that Are there you know because they've Developed earlier but they have a Certain cap and then what happens is They reach their cap and then you stop Playing them because you're like wait a Minute okay he started for me this year But I got this kid now who's come in Who's better you know he he's the he's Been at division two and then now moved Up and he's ahead of this guy now and Now this kid will never understand did I Get worse like that's what what they Think because i' I've talked to a lot of Players that have got like I got worse And like no you didn't get worse you you Reached a certain level of your limits As far as an athlete standpoint and you

Went to a level that was probably higher Than you belonged at because you were You were more mature earlier yeah okay But you like let say you went to Ruckers Right and you started early but that was Your cap and another player came along But you Pro maybe you belong at Mammoth And you could have been a four starter There right right or coach I'm sure You're seeing it with your kid right now Being at the age that that he's at 12 Right those look we all know those Middle School Superstars that were just Hit puberty sooner and like then you Never know about him in high school You're like damn that town always had This dude who was an animal where the Hell did he go it's like oh he's still On the roster dude but he just ain't That guy anymore you know that was uh in My high school it was Danny baresi he Was you know the name Danny went bald at Like 14 and he matured way past and and He didn't grow anymore he was muscular In middle school yeah he was buying beer In sixth grade you know Yeah my town it's it's funny because he Was when I had my training facilities he Was my business partner and he tells the Story all the time see he was still Trying to get to that level Dave he was Trying to use the I remember in sixth Grade he was pitching to us and that Ball was coming in so fast I got two

Hits off I went two for three and I was Like oh you're so great I'm like listen I never saw that ball I just swung I got Lucky he was throwing the ball so fast And if he hit you it hurt but he was Literally 5 foot eight in seventh grade But everybody got him 5 foot eight as a Senior and you know and he had a beard In seventh grade yeah he was buying the Beard was the greatest seventh grade Athlete I ever Saw middle school middle school Heroes Man they they you know they don't screw Around dude but Now I forgot all about those guys but Now look you look even now like you know It's just sometimes parents and coaches Just get in the way right now you're Reclassing kids you're dealing with this You know like for all the new stuff That's that that's coming about and it It's just it's just it's wild to think About it but you know some of that stuff Still stays the same what's funny about It though it's funny because I I thought About it when I just said it that person End up running track at division 3 the way that the world was back Then he was able to Realize that he was peaked out he was he Was smart enough and he would tell you This to this day he was smart enough That he developed really early he Enjoyed that dominance as but he really

Peaked out and he actually he was fairly Successful division 3 and um but he was Able to assess that he never said to Himself I was the greatest player in Eighth grade I should go to Alabama that Was a the thought process was never Entered his head it was like Hey I grew Up I grew before everybody else this was My kind of cat I reached my close to my Cap if I want to continue my career at The college level I got a go to a level That is to my ability which was for for Him was division three track and he did Very well at division three track you Know ran got have that self awareness I Think you had it back then I think you Had it back then because your parents Would you know and they were Hest in Record I said this to Dereck this is my First thing I always said Derek I said You wna when a kid who younger comes and And he he'll tell you this when a kid Who's younger a freshman or or an eighth Grader and a parent you the kid kid Wants to go at a high level I say make Sure you meet their parents because then You're going to know what level they're Going to because when you meet their Parents you will see the side now listen Are there outliers that run four4 and 40 Yes absolutely okay but you'll have a Good idea when you meet the parents and Their you see their size mom and dad What height they're probably going to be

And the range of level they're going to Be and then you could start to have that Conversation and set the expectation With them you you know what I mean but If you don't meet their parents you know Uh the funny part is some of these Parents I find now which is funny to me Like I'm like have you looked in the Mirror you know I mean Derek's D dere Understands because he's 5 foot eight Five foot n um but oh thanks I Appreciate the actually yeah I give you I gave you a boost of an inch thank you In CLE in CLE in they don't look they Don't they won't even look in the mirror To like like you're standing here and Your kid is in eth grade and as tall as You right now and you 5 foot s oh but He's going to get to six feet no he's Not going to get to six Feet I I say to parents all the time in Recruiting I say hey make sure you get To campuses and and I say what I want to Go to campus I want to get offers I said But if you go to a campus you could Watch practice or a game and see if you Look like the players that's it coach That's it and if you look like them then Maybe you get recruited there but that That doesn't always stick right you know And really what's unfortunate too coach And you'll see like we talk about this All the time is you know we're just We're different and we we just it's the

Honesty like I owe it to that kid to be Honest and or and Mom and Dad right and They've just been told everything They've wanted to hear you know because That trainer wants that guy to pay Another 200 next for the next group of Sessions and all this kind of stuff and You know look whether my reputation is You know that guy's an [ __ ] because I'm honest I'm sorry that I have to be The guy to tell your kid like hey you Know I think it's this level is where That's gonna end up and a lot of times I'm the first one to have to tell them Or you know Dave's the first one that Has to you know you got to put that out There but I owe it to that kid if I care Enough about it and you as a parent like I'm sorry that this is all you see on Social media that's not the norm that's The 3% that gets to play on channel two That gets to go to Notre Dame that gets You know of course outliers maybe one Whatever but so let me ask you this then Too like my take on the whole recruiting Thing no matter what the process is is Water usually seeks its own level a guy Ends up being at the level that works For him and even more so now in the Transfer portal whether it's for Development or whether it's through fall Down and lack of uction because maybe it Used to be back in our day Dave it was Hey you were there and you stayed there

And you you wrote out your choice Whether it was good or bad or in between And the same thing for the coach okay They made a mistake on Andy and uh well He's Here but still even in that day you said Water seek its own level to a pretty Significant degree now so if there ends Up being an error in the calculus and You've got a beast at Albany that could Play at Florida State okay that's going To figure out and now he ends up playing In the NFL in the NFL out but how many Time like this is where the parental Piece right here is you know for those Pieces well maybe my recruiting service Isn't doing enough maybe my high school Coach isn't doing enough maybe we should Have done this differently but doesn't It usually work out how many guys do you Know over the course of the years that You say this guy's just walking the Streets of town and he would have been a A major league baseball pitcher if he Had it usually sorts itself out most Correct and he's not a major league Pitcher for a reason okay this is the Other thing that that that I believe and And not everybody believes this but I Believe this okay U you know I used used To you probably used to hear this all The time oh you know there's all these Guys in New York City that could be pro Basketball players if if if if if this

Or this didn't happen what guess what This this or this decision did happen And that's why they're not pro Basketball players that people who are Pro LeBron James Michael Jordan okay They made decisions along the way that Gave them the Opportunity to become the players that They are all right and you know what They they had some of that Clarity and Yes I'm sure they had people along the Way that were that saw the ability and Helped them along the way set them Straight when they needed to all those Kind of things okay but you have to be Able to take advantage of the situation The other thing I think is really Important is you don't want to force it I I liken it to dating women okay Everybody has dated a woman that was way Out of their league okay where you're Basically were forcing it and you're Like my goodness this this woman I I Should I should uh my God she's so Amazing I I just want her to to to love Me well the bottom line is you got you You you you forced the issue you got her To go out with you but she really wasn't The right fit for you okay and because She wasn't the right fit for you it was Not going to work out it's it's it's one Of those things where you need to have The right fit and the right opportunity The right situation for you and if oh by

The way that is the beauty of the Transfer portal if oh by the way you Outgrew that you really did you don't Need to go in the transfer portal Because your friends went in the Transfer portal you go in the transfer Portal because you know what I really am That much better than the level I'm at Okay or I re I look at the roster and it Really is a situation whereas you know What I picked a school that was above my Level I chose the girlfriend that was Beyond my league and I realized you know What I should be playing over here which Is was the old go down a level thing Which was which was a real thing like Going down a level and playing it could Be a really smart decision just like Going up a level if you are that good Like that you know some of those players I saw um you see it all the time uh um You know a player from the ivy league That goes in his fifth year to a a big School you know he end up growing to six Foot six or whatever right yeah Absolutely that is that is the beauty of The the beautiful part of the system if You look at it from a positive side is That is opportunity but don't force the Issue don't throw away a good Opportunity just because everyone else Thinks that you you know everyone else Is chasing something that's the saddest Part about it is when you watch a kid

That goes into the portal and he's on a Good deal and um you know he's even a Good kid or you know and this goes back To our discussion about decisions made When we're 19 or 20 years old and even In that case they we're talking about You have a scholarship and you say hey I'm going to jump in the portal and see What's out there and test the waters Well you know Day from your experience The dudes who are going into the portal Right now aren't doing it on a whim They're not doing it because hey let's Test the waters right there somebody has Gotten to them and said hey you're gonna Get this offer right here or this is Gonna happen to you right Here jumping out of the plane without a Parachute doesn't work out [ __ ] unless You're an offensive linan unless you're An offensive Lin And that actually brings up but that Actually brings up a great point right Like choosing what position to play Right like no I want to carry the ball I Want to do this I want to do buddy if You want to put your hand in the dirt And go be a guard you're gonna have a Lot more opportunities being that than You are you know guys are overpaying for At this point because there's not a lot Of them because it ain't the you know Bells and whistles position where I'm The guy they don't get many clicks you

Know what I'm saying like yeah but you Have guys there's five of these dudes on The field at all times what are we doing Like if you really want to dive into it But hey there's no seven on seven teams For mindeman there's nothing for the you Know what I mean it ain't the sexy thing Here let's do this fellas okay let's Create a nine on Seven League and let It's just nine on seven it's the Opposite of seven on seven we're doing Inside drill and it's nine on seven and I think we could get SP we could get a TV deal where it's just inside Run game And you know it's really short it's Probably only going to be like uh I Don't know if it's more than 20 plays For the competition right there and you Keep scoring that how great would that Be for a coner It'd be great you think anybody's buying That right there I love that that would Be my favorite no administrator is Because we can't have that much contact Coach we're going over you know what I Mean that's the limit we can only tackle Twice a week here what are we doing yeah It's true it's smart in the way too it's Smart but I reps n on S oh yeah inside drill was the greatest Drill best thing ever because as a Safety you got to participate Corners You guys go over there and just cover

Let me get in the Box here you know let Me get in the Box well dere you're bring Up right now is the biggest fight Between offense and defensive staff in America say why is that safety in the Inside rro right there there's nobody to Block him and he's coming in and blowing Up the tail back you're like sorry man They put me on this drill I'm just doing What I'm coached to do coach sorry you Know hey I'm I'm good and this is coming From a guy who couldn't cover anybody Right like hey you go to this side Because you're rolling down no matter What coverage we're in D buddy like hook To curl is where you're staying okay Like that's it but but it's it's a great You know argument coach you know it Really is um it's just you know you just See a lot of things now and like you Said like there's a group this this is Now a generation that hasn't seen any of That beforehand you know the the days of That stuff that was gone by the time you Know the these guys have been wearing Guardians since they put a helmet on you Know or they didn't even start football Until they were in seventh or eighth Grade you know um Dave sees it a lot More now because he's got a Nine-year-old who's what is this this Will be Troy's what third year of tackle This uh this year coming up will be his Third year yeah he'll be in the 10 he'll

Be in the 10 this year yeah so it's uh It's a weird world man he's played Tackle for three years no this will be His third he did two he did two be his Third so he's got two eight played eight N then this year will'll be yeah as Third as a 10-year-old it's uh I mean You know like I'm in Middletown which is A big Traditional football place um you know It's it's funny because we play like we Play places that are traditional Football places those are always good Games and then we play places that don't Really have a tradition in football and It's like it's not even a close game Because they have a hard time getting Enough enough kids you you know so it It's it's very interesting uh um tackle Football from town to town now you know What's obviously huge everywhere which Is flag I mean that's that's huge Everywhere which is it's it's Interesting to see how that Um 15 years from now affects how tackle Is I'm curious on all of that but um the Pro Bowl is Now yeah I mean I I don't know like I Feel like I have an opinion but I'm not Sure because I feel like there are there Are some things for young young kids I Think that are really good in it like Keeps them in football like until They're ready you know so there's no

Pressure if they're not ready like I Know a lot of kids that I think probably Will play football down the line that Stay in flag because either the parents Aren't comfortable with it yet or or They think their kid isn't comfortable With it yet but they're very good Athletes and I think they probably will Play tackles so my whole thing is like Whatever kind of keeps them in football To me whatever it is whether it's Flag Seven on seven uh if they like T if they Want to play tackle what whatever it is That keeps him involved in enjoying the Game and um you know is important Because I think when you get to high School then it keeps high school Programs with the opportunity to Continue to have football programs Whereas I think if we went the path That you know uh even though I'm a you Know traditionalist on a lot of this Stuff I think if the path we stayed on Because of once the whole concussion Movie came out and all that stuff came Out I think that um there was a pivot That was inevitable that that had to Happen and uh to me as long as they keep In football and we have the opportunity To get him down the line great you know I agree whatever that takes if if that Kid like you said early in that if he's Not ready or if he's got to grow his Passion we got to dig our hooks into him

To get him to appreciate football and if It's Flag when he's younger that's good Because at the end of the day when I've Watched it with my son he you know I Held my older one out of football until I think seventh grade whatever age that Is but the younger one said no no no I Want to go so the one had flag football Up till seventh grade then was tackle But the younger one he you know that's Kind of what happens with the younger Ones they get whatever they want the the Path was blazed by the older on so the Young ones get what they want so he's Been in tackle since whatever for three Years and he's 12 13 now so let not Unlike your son he started early but Yeah it's what I I think that's the good Thing about football now it gives them The choice they're not under pressure Like if they're not ready to get hit That they have to go and you know yeah Yeah they gota mature I flag and I think Flag is good athletically I I mean yeah You know there's things that I don't Think apply but I think that the Athletic part the change in Direction Catching ball all that stuff that Applies um and then obviously the hard The hardest part about Flag is is the lineman thing I think the Hard that's the in general the hardest Part about football probably always has Been I'm guessing guessing it always has

Been because even back when I was a kid The kids line were reluctantly playing The line it's not like they most of them Wanted to be on the line they they and Then they they have learned to love the Appreciate the line position but I I I Don't think that there's that many kids In the world that say to themselves I Want to go and block for others and no Glory Guy full speed yeah yeah I think That's something that they have to learn To appreciate over time so when we say That there's you know sometimes as Coaches we want to say oh you know they They won't just grind out be align it's Like no I remember in high I remember in High school the kids that they put on The line and I remember kids point turn Around and pointing and saying like why Isn't he in the on the line because I Was big you know and I was fast I was The tailb and then I was bigger than Most of the linemen you know and they're Like why isn't he in line they're like Because you can't run like he can you Know and those were you know and that's The first time those kids were like the Yaha like oh that's right okay well you Know what I do want to play football and Here's here's my opport and so you gota They still kind of have to be coaxing Into for the most part into playing the Alliance so I think that's okay and I Think that that's always going to be uh

The one thing that's always going to be Hard about football and that's why at The highest levels when you watch the NFL the first thing they're complaining About when Patrick Mahomes is getting Getting his line is not good enough Because you know what it's hard to get a Hundred great offensive lineman in the World I don't know that there is you Know uh uh you each team might have one Or two that are quote unquote the best And then you got to find guys that fill Their roles properly so you can get a Line that that works in sync and that's That's the most important part of the Line is that they work in sync together Because it there's not that many uh What's the guy from um beckton from Uh pal guys in the World there's not many of those you know Those th those are as rare as seven Footers you know and and uh it's just It's like um but yeah if you listen you Want to know how good a football team is Gonna be I always say it's it's almost The same exact thing as when you say you Want to know how good a basketball team Is you know you want to know how good my Basketball time team's gonna be come Into the gym and see how tall they are I Can tell you how pretty much close to How many wins they're going to have Relative to the other teams right and You want how good the football team is

Come and see my line and if they're if They are gigantic and they are big and Strong you're probably gonna have a Decent team you Know any coach it's been great having You on man really you could do our Better you do our job better than Usach you might have a we're just Sitting around talking right there I Saying to Derek and say hey what what's The topic man what are we gonna cover no We're just Rolling our our show is like uh a Football Seinfeld episode EP you know What I mean like like we we we talk About the things that talk shop we talk Shop and we and we end up covering Everything with without actually Having without actually having an Overall agenda coach it's way better Than hey these are the questions we're Gonna ask this is the the you know you Just kind of roll with it and that's you Know it's really been a method that you Know guys are now looser when they're Coming in to talk and you know they Expressing certain things and how they You know going back back and forth and Stuff it's just it's just a different Model and it works you know it's kind of Just hey we'll just talk shop and Wherever it goes we take it and we go It's good I appreciate you guys having Me on it's generous of you it's fun

Coach appreciate you thank you good to Get to know you a little better too I Appreciate it no no no doubt about it Coach and you know we do do every once In a while we do um X and0 breakdowns so Like we we've had guys come in and go And uh literally pull up film talk talk With doing this situation you ever want To do that that would be that would be Uh uh that'd be great we'd love to have You that'd be awesome that'd be awesome Appreciate it coach appreciate you guys Reaching out and appreciate the Opportunity it's a lot of fun wish you Guys well okay it's great talking have a Great day see you later bye that was Great excellent excellent excellent Excellent uh show really great what what A what a great guy Tough place too yeah that's a tough Place tough place but you know and we Didn't really dive into that you know Which which uh um which I you know I I Think we all kind kind of know the good And the bads of of pace you know having Been North Jersey guys they're they're You know it's it's it's it's an isolated Place it's actually a pretty uh town by The way that area um uh a nice place to Live yeah nice place to Um but yeah that was that was a great Show uh I already far we have on the Head coach of Susana right is it yes sir And then and

Then then we have and then Dawn Dawn Carpel from sjv will be Thursday and Then uh Dan fter Um kind of along the feed the cats type Kind of like you know whether It's neurological or whe whether it's Strength the conditioning or you know All coming back to ball you know it's All you know I'm telling you that the The Tony holler stuff the guys that We've talked to and hey go talk to this Person or hey go talk to this guy every One of them has given us somebody else That's you know one willing to come and Talk shop about this stuff which I think Is just phenomenal in general and then Two to kind of just align with it and Kind of go like I it's it's so cool I I Think the uh the feed the cats like uh Ecos system I guess I call it now like Because there's different component the The the tree that it's now or the roots That are coming from like you know what I mean like it's all trickle into Certain everybody's got we do we do Rpr every time we feel we need to center Oursel before sports or even even if We're going through A a um the day and like something's I Don't know we're rushing to something You know like and you know we're I'm Like you know what let's do Center let's Do Some dude you my kids in there doing

This Derek okay he's doing this he's Doing this I'm like just do it dude two I'm I'm like literally 20 seconds will Get you a little bit feeling a little Bit better and that's sometimes that's All he needs to feel a little bit better You know and um but it is amazing have You done it to yourself yet yeah dude It's amazing it's amazing dude I I I Don't know if it's psychosomatic meaning Like I'm just like antidotal like just Like yeah and if it is I don't really Care right because it's right doesn't Matter it's it's like you know people The funniest thing was this people used To always say I don't know if you ever Used it but I don't even know if it's Still around but remember Ben Gay Remember the so I was just like all the Way muscle aches and [ __ ] right from the Time I was a kid all the way through College I always put it like part of my Warmup like I would put it on all over My legs and and you know to get myself Loose and they people used to be like Why do you do it it's just it's just a Topical I'm like I don't know I don't Care and I don't care because you know What as soon as I do it all and I S it's It's part of my process I feel ready to Go if I don't do it I just don't feel Ready so what there there is the listen People can say whatever they want like The mental part of of playing your sport

And and and how you approach it it's Like listen if you play chess okay would You would you prepare for a chess game By just coming into the game and not Preparing yourself mentally if that's Your way maybe you would but most people Have some sort of process that they go Through so no different it's no Different man it's no different no doubt All right let's let's get out of here on To the next one

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Dave Schuman

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