Bloodlines and betrayal, the JonBenét Ramsey case
Bloodlines and betrayal, the JonBenét Ramsey case
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And yes, here we are. Black black back For bloodlines and Betrayal without Billy the liquor Guy. And today we are talking about the Unsolved case or is it unsolved of John Benet Ramsay. Yes, Dave and I have Discussed this case at length and the Details are very very sketchy and it Makes one discuss and ponder if it was An inside job or was it an outside Intruder and the details of the Case. Um, John Benet obviously was A beauty pageant Uh contestant. I would I say she Competed beauty page contestant, right? She competed Yeah, she she competed in Child beauty pageant contestants. Um, The mother, Paty Ramsay, was a former Beauty queen, so she got John Benet Involved very very early. Um, so it it it it's a Very Confusing, intricate case that Um nobody really Understood. Uh and even police failed to Secure the crime scene. There were People coming in and out. So there was a Lot behind this and no nobody really has Gotten answers. And part of the problem Was the parents um did not cooperate Early on. So this was Christmas 1996. Okay. She obviously she was a Child beauty pageant winner. Uh she was
Killed in her family's home in Boulder, Colorado. Uh the basement, discovered in The basement. She was discovered in the Basement, but uh the time of death has Been uh a subject of conjecture. Nobody Really knows. Um The she she was found this is what was Strange. Her body was found in the Home's basement around 7 hours after she Had been reported missing Missing. Um, so there was a what Happened was the the Ramsies got up that Morning and there was a ransom note. There was a Ramsson note that basically Said, and it's strange because Um the amount of money they asked for Was like exactly what Mr. Ramsay had uh In a bonus or a savings. I can't Remember which, but the the Ramsson note Said, "Listen carefully. We're a group Of individuals that represent a small Foreign faction. We do respect your Business, but not the country that it Serves. At this time, we have your Daughter in our possession. She's safe, Unharmed. If you want to see her in 1997, you must follow our instructions In the letter. You will withdraw $118,000 from your account. $100,000 Will be in $100 bills. The remaining $18,000 will be in $20 bills. That's Strange to begin with. You're gonna have 18 grand and $20 bills. Make sure that You bring an adequate size attach to the
Back. When you get home, you attache. What does that mean? It's like a Briefcase. Okay. Um, when you get home, You'll put the money in a brown paper Bag. I will call you between 8 and 10:00 A.m. tomorrow to instruct you on Delivery. The delivery will be Exhausting, so I advise you to be Rested. If we monitor you getting the Money early, we might call you to Arrange an earlier delivery of the Money. Um, any deviation of the Instructions will result in immediate Execution of your daughter. You will be Also be denied the remains for a proper Burial. The two gentlemen watching over Your daughter uh do particularly like You, so I advise you not to provoke Them. Speaking to anyone about your Situation, the police, FBI, will result In your daughter being Beheaded. If we catch you talking to a Stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank Authorities, she dies. If the money is Any way marked or tampered with, she Dies. You will be scanned for electronic Devices and if any are found, she dies. You can try to deceive us, but be Warned. We are familiar with law Enforcement counter measures and Tactics. You stand 99% chance of killing Your daughter if you try to outsmart us. Follow our instructions and you stand 100% chance of getting her back. You and
Your family are under constant scrutiny As well as the authorities. Do not try To grow a brain, John. You're not the Only fat cat. Um, so around, so don't Think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that Good southern common sense of yours, and It's up to you now. So that was the Ransom note and it's signed victory SBTC. Okay. So um the only people in the House were the immediate family, John And Paty Ramsey, their son Burke. The Ransom the ransom note contained Specific instructions about contacting Police and friends. But Paty, that Stupid [ __ ] telephoned the police at 5:52 a.m. See, she also called family And friends. Two police report two Police officers responded to the 911 Call and arrived at the Ramsay home Within 3 minutes. They conducted a Cursorary search of the house, but did Not s did not find any sign of forced Entry. Officer Rick French went to the Basement, came to a door that was Secured by an additional wooden latch at The top of the frame. He paused, but he Walked without opening it. French later Explained weird. Yeah. French later Explained that he was looking for an Exit route used by the kidnapper. Since The wooden latch was holding the door Closed from the inside of the house, the Kidnapper could not have used this door.
And uh then the closed latch ruled out As a possible exit. And that's where John Bernay's body was later found. With John Benet still missing, John made Arrangements to pay the ransom, which is Puzzling to me because on Christmas Day, What banks are open? None. Okay, that That's what I'm thinking. But this was Uh hold on. Uh was discovered on December 26th, 1996. So their co banks open on December. No, I thought it was 25th. It Was 25th. It says here 26th. Does it say The 26th? Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought It was I thought it was Christmas Day. No. Oh, it was the night of the 25th. You're right. So, it was the 26th. Okay. Could have gone to a bank the next day. Yeah. Okay. So, I got that wrong. Okay. Yep. So, um a forensics team was Dispatched to the house. The team Initially believed that the child had Been kidnapped and John Benet's bed only Room in the house that was quartered off To prevent contamination of evidence. No Precautions were taken to prevent Contamination of evidence in the rest of The house. Meanwhile, friends, victim Advocates, the fam, the Ramsay's family Minister arrived at the home to show Support. Visitors picked up and clean Surfaces, possibly destroying evidence. Boulder detective Linda Ardent arrived At 8:00 a.m. Mountain time in
Anticipation of further instructions by The kidnappers, but there was never an Attempt by anyone to claim the money. So that's strange to begin with. So They're there. I mean, she called at 5:52. They're there. Um the detective arrives At 8 and they're waiting around, you Know, for the ransom call. Um, so at 1:00 the detective Ardent uh asked John Ramsay and uh Fleet White, who was a Family friend, to search the house just To see if anything seems a miss. They Started the search in the basement and John opened the latched door where Officer French had overlooked Um because obviously he was looking for An exit for the kidnappers. The Daughter's body lay in one of the rooms. John Benet's mouth was covered with duct Tape. A nylon cord was around her wrists And her necks. her neck, her torso was Covered in a white blanket. John picked Up her body and rushed upstairs, which Again was stupid. Um, which moved the Crime scene and further contaminated Everything. He should have left the body Where it was and notified police because By him picking up the body, you just Contaminated the crime Scene. So, you know, it further Disturbed any forensics for the Forensics team. Uh, each of the Ramsies Provided handwritten handwriting, blood,
And hair samples to the police. John and Paty participated in a pre preliminary Interview for more than two hours. Burke Was also interviewed Um within the first few weeks of John Benet's death. So The it was the Autopsy that was the autopsy re revealed That now this was this was the strangest Thing. She was killed by Strangulation and a skull fracture. The Official cause of death death was Asphixxia was you know the strangulation But it was used there was a gar used Right a a grote hasn't been used since Like the 1800s right um there was no Evidence of conventional rape although Sexual assault could not be ruled out. No semen was found. There was evidence That there had been a vaginal injury. Evidence also suggested that the Paintbrush used uh as the gro was also Used for the sexual assault which makes Me want to puke. Uh at the time of the Autopsy, the path the pathologist Recorded that appeared the vaginal area Was wiped with a cloth and her death was Ruled a homicide. The gro was made with The length of the nylon cord and a Broken handle of the paintbrush and it Was tied behind uh her neck and used to Strangle her. Part of the bristle end of The paint brushes were found
Um in a tub containing Patsy's art Supplies, but the bottom third of the Gro that the the paintbrush handle was Never found despite of sex extensive Searching of the house. The autopsy also Revealed vegetable and fruit material Which may represent pineapple that John Benet had had eaten a few hours before Her death. Um photographs of the home Taken on the day when John Benet's body Was found show a bowl of pineapple in The kitchen table with the spoon of it. However, John, neither John nor Paty Remembered putting a bowl on the table Or feeding pineapple to John Benet. Uh, Police reported that they found Paty Ramsay's fingerprints on the bowl. Um, So in 2003, forensic investigators extracted Enough material from a mixed blood Sample found in John Benet's underwear To establish a DNA profile. The DNA Belonged to an unknown male and excluded The DNA of the Ramsies. the DNA would Was submitted to the FBI's index system. Um, COTUS, you know, COTUS, COTUS is a System where all criminals there, if you Commit a crime, your DNA goes into COTUS. It's a database that contains More than 1.6 million DNA profiles, but This sample matched nothing in the Database. Um, in October 2016, a report said a new
Forensic analysis with more sensitive Techniques like touch DNA um revealed That the original DNA contained genetic Markers from two individuals other than John Benet. So there Uh James Kohler who was the lead Investigator for the DA's office said There were additional traces of male DNA Found on the cord the gro the gout and The paintbrush. uh the Boulder District Attorney Mark Marcy Lacy did not mention Uh and that there were six separate DNA Samples belonging to unknown individuals That will that were found by this test. Former FBI profiler Candace Dong Believes the DNA having shown up Identically in several places, multiple Surfaces, belongs to the killer. Forom's Former Adams County, Colorado District Attorney Bob Grant, who assisted the Boulder County DA's office for many Years, also believes the DNA evidence is Significant, saying that any resolution Of the case would explain how DNA showed Up in several places of John Benet's Clothing. And forensic pa p p p p p p p P p p p p p p p p p p p pathologist Michael Baden said, "Trace amounts of DNA can get on places and co clothing From all different nonsuspicious means. There's no forensic evidence to show This is a stranger murderer." And the Reason he says this is because the crime
Scene was contaminated. There were so Many people in the house, the unknown Trace DNA could be from any friends, Family that initially came Over. So, the the investigation Um the Boulder Police really focused on exclusively John and Paty Ramsay. Um, but in 1997, October of 1997, they had over 1,600 People in their index of persons of Interest of the case following, you Know, uh, pedophiles, sex offenders and Such. But there were so many errors Made initially Um in the initial investigation that Complicated the resolution of the you Know the murder. Um the errors included Loss and contaminated evidence, lack of Experience and technical staff on the Investigation. Evidence shared with the Ramsies and Delayed formal interviews with the Parents. Other issues included Misleading information intentionally Leaked by the Boulder Police in hopes of Creating public pressure on John and Paty to better cooperate with police Interview requests, which contributed to The intense media intension surrounding The family. So, they obviously thought The parents did it Because you're inside the house, the Parents house, the body's found inside
The house. There's no evidence that There was any type of Intruder. It just doesn't it didn't add Up. Did not add up. And it was a thing Where Um police messed up so much Uh Jean Benet's father discovering the Body, bringing it up. The criminal Evidence, they should have left it There. Yep. 100%. Um inviting the families over. Yeah. She's like, "Oh my god, my Daughter, uh please come over and Support us." you know, the the ministers Over if they weren't. So, that that Makes me suspicious of the whole ransom Case with nobody claiming it. Now, did Once the police get called and the I if This was indeed an outsider, once the Police got called, did they think, "Oh [ __ ] you know what? They're not even They're not even going to respond to us. They're just gonna uh they just called The police and and Um uh or I think I think you know well There's a couple things that that that Happened that I think I mean those are The things that messed it up right Messed up the DNA messed up all those Kind of things. Yeahum contaminated Contaminated the evidence for sure. You Know Paty died obviously of cancer 2006 So it's not like you can go interview Her anymore. Um yeah, you know, but it's
So like You know, I saw the father get Interviewed in a recent what was that Netflix or what was that on? I can't Remember. He's done he's done a couple. Um the one on Netflix I thought was very Good. They did one on uh A&E I Believe. Um but yeah, they they've done Several documentaries on it. Uh, you Know, I know they did a date line. Um, The guy that was paramount was, uh, Detective L. Smith. He came out of Retirement in early 1997 to assist the Boulder County District Attorney's Office with the Case. In May of 1998, he presented its Findings to the Boulder Police and other Staff members of the DA's office, Concluding that the evidence pointed Away from the Ramsies. They were unable To successfully challenge the police Department's belief that the Ramsies Were guilty. The DA's office sought to Take control of the investigation due to The animosity to the police. There there Was animosity between the police and the DA's office. The pressure to obtain a Conviction. Colorado Governor Roy Romer Interceded and named Michael Kaine as Special prosecutor to initiate a grand Jury. Now, this is what people never Knew. Um, the grand jury was convened and Evidence was presented to indict John
And Paty Ramsay. And this wasn't found out until 20 or 30 years later, uh, 20 years Later, and they voted not to, um, Convict, you know, press charges. Um but L Smith and Steve Thomas, L. Smith was The guy who worked on the case to his Death. Um they resigned. Smith because He believed the Investigation was incompetent and Overlooked the intruder Hypothesis. and Thomas because he Believed the DA's office and had Interfered and failed to support his Hypothesis of the case. So, the grand Jury was convened in in 1998 and they were going to indict the Ramsies for charges related to the case. In 1999, the grand the grand jury Returned a true bill to charge the Ramsies with placing the child at Risk in a way that led to her death Based on probable cause Standard applied in grand jury Proceedings. Now, Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter did not Prosecute them because he did not Believe that he could meet the higher Standard of proving guilt beyond a Reasonable Doubt. So, the grand jury did vote to Indict Them and uh the DA said, "I can't take This to court. There's no way I'm gonna
Win beyond a reasonable doubt. There's There's there's no evidence. It's all Circumstantial. Um Mary Lacy was the next DA who took o Or no uh yeah, she was the next DA that Took over the investigation in 2002. In April of 2003, she agreed with a Federal judge that the uh liel case that Evidence in the suit is more consistent With a theory that an intruder mur Murdered John Benet than it was that the Ramsies did. And then it wasn't until 1998 that the Boulder County District Attorney's Office Developed, newly DNA technology and Testing techniques that excluded the Ramsies as suspects in the case. And Lacy publicly exonerated the Ramsies. Now, part of that was because the Rams Stop Stopped Cooperating early on once they found Out, you know, the questions Were suspect to them. You know, they They were they were treated as suspects. They shut down. So, Um, this case has been investigated and Investigated And nobody knew That they were actually indicted and the The prosecutor declined to take it to Trial. So, uh, in 2009, the,
Uh, the indictment officially expired Because of the statute of Limitations. In 2010, the Boulder police reopened the Cold case. New interviews were Conducted, Uh, fresh inquiry by a committee that Included state and federal Investigators. Police were expected to use the latest DNA technology in in their Investigation. There was no new Information from the interviews and Um The it's been reported since 2016 that The investigation into her death Continues to be an active homicide case. Um, there's been people who have Disagreed with exonerating the Ramsies, stating Exonerating anyone based on a small Piece of evidence that has not yet Proven to be connected to the crime is Absurd. Uh, unknown DNA from John Bernay's clothing has to be the focus of The investigation at this point in time. And that until one can prove otherwise, The suspect is the donator of that Unknown DNA. Um, we all shed DNA all the time with Our skin cells. It can be deposited Anywhere, anytime, for any reasons. to Clear
Someone just on the premise of touch DNA, especially when you have a Situation where the crime scene was Never secured at the beginning, is Really a stretch. So, Um, she he believes That the DA at the time, uh, Marcy Lacy, Uh, the public exoneration of the Ramsies was a big slap in the face to Chief Beckner of the Boulder Police Department and the core group of Detectives who've been working the case For years. So, the the theories and Suspects, there are two primary theories About John Benet's death. In the family Member theory, John Benet was killed by One or more family members. Um, in the Intruder theory, an intruder committed The crime. Uh, there was a lot of people That thought Burke may have committed The crime. Burke, the son, the son was Like 12 years old. I can't remember how Old he was. Uh Boulder police initially And and then what they and then they Wrote the ransom note to cover for Burke. Well, my question with Burke is The reason why I don't buy Burke is the Groat thing. The he that's what I said The same thing. Who would know who would Know 12y old would know how to use a Groat? Who know? He wouldn't know how to Make one. He wouldn't know how to make One. Then the other thing the other
Thing that Gave them a chance that they were in it Was also the groat. Like what what Mother or father would know how to use a Gro? Not a that wasn't a basic criminal. A hardened criminal would. You're right. Yeah. A hardened criminal would, but I Would be surprised that A father or the mother would unless There was some sort of like they had no Way. They had no reason to. They some Sort of secret tantric, you know, Uh Um deviant. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. So, which I like, you know, And she she was she was sexually Assaulted with the paintbrush. I mean, what parent would do that? Well, That's what gets me. If there was Evidence Before that situation that she had done Things like that, then I I would buy That that could be the case. But it Didn't seem like that was really, you Know, even when they tried to draw some Conclusions that Paty was a hotthead From time to time. Yes. Yes. you know, Demanding of her. That's still a large Stretch to go that she's doing, you Know, um, Uh, you know, uh, deviant stuff. So, I Thought that that was and and I don't Think that was Atypical and maybe atypical for people
From Colorado, but definitely not Atypical of people from the south. They Were very they were very kind people. Yes. pageant daughter like that that Didn't like I would you know in the South that's like a big thing you know So um so I I even Though people found it to be Shocking I think when you go to the South like a lot more of these like Child pageant things are are you know Old southern traditions just they're More prominent way more prominent yes Right they were in Colorado but they Brought that kind of tra tradition with Them So I I think that that's at first I Thought it was you know being from the Northeast when you heard the case you Thought wow that's weird but once you You know become an adult and you realize Like different things in different areas Like in the south like that's much more Of a thing you know it's like yes it is Almost like the cheerleading at the Younger ages how they so so that I Wouldn't you know maybe is that Over-the-top parents yeah but that's Still a large stretch to say they would Do this kind of a thing. So, it just Didn't make sense. It made no sense. It Made no sense. But, but normally in cases like this, I Would say it's the parents or it's the Brother, you know, because you Well, it
Would have to be someone close enough to Her like how would they get her out of Her room without screaming? Like my my Thing is that it if it wasn't any family Member or direct family member, it was Someone that knew of them or or knew Enough about them uh to know how they Could get into their home uh scouted it Out. Maybe even somebody that was from The town or something like or lived in The town. Doesn't mean they're we they Don't even know for sure like was she Killed in the basement? Was she placed In the basement? Um, one of the theories Was that Paty in a fit of rage because John Benet wet the bed uh strangled Strangled her uh to cover up what Happened after mistakenly thinking she Was already dead. However, Paty did not Have a known history of uncontrolled Anger. Burke Ramsay, who was nine at the Time, he was interviewed several times. He said, "We didn't get spanked. Nothing Of the sort. Nothing close. Nothing near Laying a finger on us, let alone killing Your child." What is Burke like now? Burke lives a very sheltered, quiet Life. He works in it, I believe. Um, he Works primarily from home. Um he's been interviewed three times and Uh a review from a child Psychologist stated that it appeared That the Ramsies had a Healthy carry uh caring family
Relationship. Um, in 1998, Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner Said during an interview with news Reporters that Burke was not involved in The killing of his sister. In 1999, the office also Reiterated Burke was not a suspect. The Investigators had have never considered Him a suspect. And then in uh the Ramsies offered a $100,000 reward in a newspaper ad in uh 1997. 3 days later, four uh more than Four months after the body of the Daughter was found, they submitted for The first time to separate formal Interviews at the Boulder Counter Center. Now, now that to Me was a huge problem. Had they from the Start, yes, just interviewed, they would Have they could have eliminated Themselves as suspects and the Investigation could have spread out and Looked at other people. Um, the fact that a Colorado grand jury Voted to indict the parents blows my Mind. But they indicted them. Now they They did not indict them on murder. They Indicted them on two counts of child Abuse and said the parents did Unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly, Feloniously permit a child to be Unreasonably placed in a situation that Posed a threat to the child's life or Health. What was that? I don't I I It
Doesn't say that. It doesn't say that. Now, one of the expert How about this? One of the experts who testified in the Case was DNA specialist Barry Sheek. Barry Sheek from the OJ trial and Forensic expert. This guy's a genius. Henry Lee. Um They he basically said that you can't Trust the DNA because it's insufficient For prosecution because there was too Much Contamination. Way too much Contamination Um because of the people in the house, The crime scene with with AI. Can you Can you is there any more advanced DNA Things that they could separate? It was It was the touch DNA, but no, I mean, Yeah, they they could if they were able To get everyone who was in the house Together and get DNA samples from them. They didn't do that at the time. They Didn't do any of that. Like I always Wondered if there Was didn't have to be a relative but a Neighbor or somebody that was like a Deviant that they didn't know was you Ever see the you ever see the movie What was the movie where the guy next Door had his had his uh Um where where he figures out that when His daughter's kidnapped and uh what the Hell was the movie with Liam with Liam
Niss? No, not Liam. It was the next door Neighbor. Oh, okay. That actually had Her Kidnapped. And he was like a seemed like A normal guy, but it was a little off. But like um Oh man, what movie was this? Uh what movie was It? Dying Next Door was the kidnapper. What was the Movie? Now, this this was the guy um L Smith was the detective who investigated This to his death. He concluded an Intruder had committed the crime. On the Night John Benet was killed, there had Been two windows that were slightly Left. I remember that. Yeah. To allow For electrical cords for the outside Christmas lights to pass through a Broken basement window and one unlocked Door. Smith's theory was that someone Entered the Ramsay's home through a Broken basement window. Right. Um and Critics have have questioned his theory Because there was an intact cobweb on The basement window. The steel grate That covered the window also had Undisturbed cobwebs and the foilage Around the grate had been undisturbed. There were also cobwebs on the tracks of Various windows, dust, debris, and some Stills. Smith believed the intruder Subdued John Benet using a stun gun, Took her down to the basement, and uh
John Benet was killed and a ransom note Was left. Uh Smith's theory was Supported by former FBI agent Johnny Douglas, who had been hired by the Ramsay family, believing that the Ramsies were innocent. Smith resigned Like we talked about 5 days after the Grand jury was convened against him and Uh he died. Smith died in uh 2010. Um, author Stephen Singular in his book Presumed Guilty, Uh, refers to consultations with cyber Crime specialists to argue John Benet Attracted a ton of child pornographers And pedophiles affiliated with the child Pageant scene. Singular further believes that the Investigation was overly focused on the Ramsay parents hampering the Investigation into alternate scenarios. Uh but the Ramsies, I still blame them Because they lawyered up and they Stopped cooperating early on once they Found out that they were suspects. And now this is also interesting. It was Determined that there had been more than A hundred burglaries in the Ramsay's Neighborhood in the months before Jean Bernay's murder. There were 38 Registered sex offenders living within a Twomile radius of the Ramsay's home. So, my god, it it's like a a a child uh A pedophile's paradise. Yeah. Well,
That's strange, too. Wasn't that a very Wealthy suburb? Yes. Yes. Because I I Remember they thought it was odd that They asked for 118K because I believe That was the exact bonus, Christmas Bonus that Ram, Mr. Ramsay received. Who Would he tell that to? That's the thing. I, you know, we don't know. Um, one of The individuals who Smith identified Before he died was Gary Howard Olivia, who was arrested for two Counts of attempted sexual exploitation Of a child and one count of sexual Sexual exploitation of a child in June 2016. According to Boulder's Daily Camera, Olivia, a registered sex Offender, was publicly identified in October of 2002 on an episode of 48 Hours Investigates. Now, this was the one, the Killing of John Benet, the truth Uncovered, broadcast by A&E in September 2016. I watched this DNA forensic Scientist. That's the movie. The the Lovely Bones. Do you ever see that Movie? Yes. Yes, I did see that. Yes. You know Where Mark Walberg figures out that the Next door neighbor Yeah. Yeah. That he Was the one who did it. Um the the A&E One uh said that the DNA Evidence basically shows an unidentified Male committed the crime. The district Attorney's office is investigating
Pedophiles indicated to former Denver Prosecutor Craig Silverman that the District attorney's office followed the Intruder theory. The Ramsies developed a Relationship with DA Marcy Lacy because She was the one who exonerated them. Um, And she Criticized the city mayor. She Criticized the police chief. Uh once you Have conceded the possibility of an Intruder, I don't see how any Ramsay Should could ever successfully be Prosecuted. So there was testing for touch DNA. Um He also said Lacy strongly supported the Intruder theory and talked about it with The staff. The problem is there there's Been confessions. So here's one of them. John Mark Carr. He was a 41-year-old School teacher. He was arrested in Bangkok, Thailand on October 15, 2006 Following a false confession to Murdering Jean Benet. Carr claimed to Have drugged, sexually assaulted, and Accidentally killed her. According CNN, Um, authorities also say they they did Not find ev any evidence linking car to The crime scene. like he was he he was Nowhere to be found. He knew basic facts That were publicly known, but obviously The police left out some details that Only the killer would know. And there Were they did an autopsy. No drugs were Found in her system and his DNA did not
Match. Now, the Ramsies filed a liel uh defamation Lawsuit against several people and Companies who have reported on the case Starting in 1999. Uh Star Magazine, American Media On their son's behalf. Uh the big one Was this was the one I watched. It was In 2016. Uh ABC had a series about it like uh if If I did it and they had several experts On to conclude who they thought did it. Um it was the case of Janam John Bené Ramsey and uh Wernern Spitz was on it. Wernern Spitz has testified everywhere. He is a a leading pathologist expert. I Believe he testified in the OJ case. He Accused Burke Ramsey of killing his Sister. Burke filed a defamation suit Against Spitz and uh they also would Include Lynn Wood. They filed a $150 Million punitive and compensatory Lawsuit. And they sued CBS at the end of 2016. And then he also filed an Additional civil lawsuit that accused CBS, the production company, Critical Content LLC, and the seven experts who Were on the panel of defamation of Character. It was a $250 million Lawsuit. And Uh okay, they set okay, they ended up Settling. They uh they tried to have it Dismissed. it wasn't. In 2019,
Um they they settled the Lawsuit. So, it's a fascinating case With no real Answers. And I mean, well, there there there are Answers. Like, it was bungled from the start. You Have to admit that. You have to admit That the Ramsies were absolute morons For calling People to come over. You know, like if I Was Provided if I was provided a ransom note That my brother was kidnapped, I would Say I would write back and say, "Hey, You can have him. Good for you." Um, no. I I mean I You want him, you got him. He's all Yours. Um, would you call police if you got a Ransom note that your kid was Kidnapped or or would would you follow The orders and get the money and deliver It? That's the Question because I've heard both ways. I've heard both sides Um of people not involving police and Because that they always tell you that, You know, we're watching you. So, if you Go to the police, we're we're gonna know And we're gonna kill your kid. So, it's Hard to know. And
And like I I personally I don't think I Know the answer to that one. I do. I I Would I would not involve Police. If I could if I could get my Hands on the kind of money needed, I'd Pay the ransom. If it meant being able to get my loved One Back, I mean, you gotta ask for proof of Life. Yes. And you know, the the pickup Spot and all that stuff. They had no way To contact them. They had the the the Kidnapper had to contact them, right? Yeah. You had to wait. You had to wait For the kidnapper to contact them, which They didn't in the span of eight hours. Now after that long a period of Time, yes, I probably would Have I probably would have acquiesed. If You believe the theory that I was an Outside person, what I believe happened Is I think it was an outside person. I Mean, they've been ruled out. They did Whatever crazy things they were going to Do and accidentally killed her Before they got to have an opportunity To either a cash in. You know what I'm Saying? So, um that that may have been The case there and that's why I didn't Hear from them because So, you you think They actually initially came in with the Plan to kidnap her? Kidnap her and they Accidentally they were gonna Right. They Were going to, right, do some things to
Her or whatever. And uh uh they with the Girl and she had blunt force trauma to The head and so she would you think she Was accidentally killed. They couldn't Get her out of the house. Somebody got Frustrated with her when they tried when They were kidnapping her. But how could The parents sleep through that? That's a That's that's a great question. I don't Know how like the only I don't know. You Can you can cover her mouth, whatever. But like if if she's going Ballistic, maybe they did use a stun gun Like looseized. Yeah. And we're dragging her out. But it Doesn't explain Either they came to the conclusion There's no way we can get out of here Without someone knowing. We just got to Kill her and abandon ship. That could Have been the case. Yeah. We're not Going to get the money. We got to get Out before we get caught. Yeah. I mean, Because you have to assume or they Accidentally killed her as they were Dragging her or something like that. Yeah. Whatever they were doing with the Girl and they killed her and they're Like, "Shit, we're not going to be able, You know, we killed her. We're not going To be able to get the money. We're Fucked." Yeah. I mean, because you have To assume they found the I mean, Paty Ramsay noticed she was missing at 5:52
A.m. So, the killers clearly were there What, at midnight, 1:00 a.m. 2:00 A.m. And that that must have been when It all went down. And I think that it Was a botch Kidnapping and they realized either There's no way we're going to make it Out of here with her. We got and we got to get out before we Get caught. She she'll be able to Describe us. We got to kill her. Yeah. We got to kill her and we got to get out Before she we get caught. Yeah. And they Tried to hide the body in the basement Even more, you know. They they tried to Hide the body. So, and that was uh what Was crazy was how fast the father found It. Well, the father started in the basement First and he checked the area where the Officer did not. That's a little bit Suspect. Like the officer goes right the Officer's two feet from the body and he Doesn't check that door that little Wooden. ever a conspiracy theory That somebody and law enforcement were Was involved? Not law enforcement. No, It was always the family. It was always The conspiracy theory was related to law Enforcement like someone in law Enforcement might have known something. The conspira The conspiracy theory was Burke did it. Yeah, I know. But that I That one was at first I kind of but then
When you hear the go that's just an Impossibility. I agree. I 100% agree. I 100% agree with that one. I don't I Don't think someone accidentally create A gro. I don't know enough about that Stuff. So no [ __ ] nobody uses a gro. I mean, I don't even know what I didn't Even know what a gorilla was until I Until I read about this Case. And would a 9-year-old be strong Enough to strangle someone with it? No. No. And Burks put up with this Forever. So, the, you know, the bottom Line is it's it's an it's an active Investigation. There's been people that have confessed To it Falsely. I think ultimately it's going To come down To just Luck like the, you know, the Golden State serial rapist. And maybe they have to do something like That where they put the DNA in like in Ancestry.com, use a third party and see If anything Pops because that's how they've caught Several Killers. You know, like the the Ancestry.com, you send your DNA in, they Tell you if you have any relatives Anywhere. Yeah. No, I don't know. Did you remember The Golden State killer? No. The rapist?
No. So, the Golden State rapist, Um, he was like 75 when he was caught. He terrorized California in like the 60s And 70s. I know. kind of a little and he The only reason he was caught was Because the police went to Ancestry.com and submitted his DNA. They found relatives of Him and then they ruled out each Relative until they found Him. So that's what I think they they Would have to do in this case. Yeah, Gro Is a wild an apparatus with a handle on Each head. Yeah, it's it's you you twist It Around the neck to Choke. That's why like I don't think a 9-year-old would be able to do That. And the Ramsies were ruled out. The DNA and the underwear would have to Be matched to something. So, I I do believe it was an intruder. We just heard there was a hundred Burglaries in the area in the months Leading up to Jean Benet being Kidnapped, right? So, there's something There. And the number of pedophiles Within two miles of the house, there Were like 38, which is crazy. That's a That that I mean that that's A pedophiles paradise. Insane. You got and you know you had I'm Sure you know you know nowadays you Would if something like that happened
Now you'd almost think it was involved With a trafficking case. Oh 100%. Like like so if you were to go back that Was before trafficking was a big thing. I wonder if that was a trafficking case. They were going to try and traffic her And then that would that would have been Very interesting. Yes. And then they Would have got a when they accidentally Killed her, right? Yeah. They were going To hold her for ransom to traffic her. But if they were going to do that, why Use why are you using a grope? The gro is just dangerous on such a Little kid. That That's my only thing is Like a gro would be dangerous to use to Subdue a child. Yes. Like I would if if there if it's a drug Not drug if it's a child trafficking Yeah. case if you know if this was today You would say this is a child Trafficking case possibly. Yeah. You and Like that was Used that is from a brute a brute Situation you know like um you know like Some of the trafficking that you have Issues with trafficking across from North America to South America. They but They usually inject you with like Special K. Now now now they do now this That's what would h you know. But Haven't you seen the case of uh did you See the recent video Where there was a person in bl plane
Plain sight went and tried to abduct a Mother and a daughter And abduct them. Yeah. and and Uh some people that were in the in the In the uh parking lot of the grocery Store uh for uh pulled it was in the Parking lot of a grocery store. A lot of These things are happening. Jesus Christ. Like like Walmarts or Targets, Maybe not. Maybe it was like a Walmart And they um the the people in the area Fought fought the guy off. They realized Something was going down and they fought They fought him off so they can get away And then he jumped in the car and Escaped and they caught him down the Road, but it was a it was a uh human Trafficking case. So now listen, if you Go back to the 90s, there was definitely I'm sure there was human trafficking Going on, but it was Probably not as widespread known as it Is now, right? You know, like to so People would not have had the Information that this could even be Case. So if Anders, hey Anders, Anders, Um, who's Anders? He he commented that They could charge them according to the Grand jury's indictment. They absolutely Could have, but Proving mur Yeah. They they charged them With child neglect. And the prosecutor Even said there, there's not enough
Evidence to prove beyond a reasonable Doubt we could get a conviction. Um, Yeah, that's the that's the um I don't I I don't think the parents were Involved. I I I really No, I I was just Trying to think of my theory on The trafficking if I The trafficking is Believable. Back in the 90s, if that was Going on in the 90s, okay, it was much More secretive probably back then. If That was going On and they they did it more from a Ransom standpoint, it would have to be Like some Nowadays they're getting money The traffickers are getting money from Someone in another country to do Yes. to Pay for it. Yes. When back back then They may have tried to traffic and get Ransom money and then if they tried to Traffic and get ransom Money and and then they had a they were The only way they knew to control was a Gro, which is a that's what I don't That's the only thing I don't believe. Well, could could a could a Trafficker use Rudimentary methods to control? That's The question. Probably. I bet you if you Were poor I bet you if you were a poor Person as a trafficker, you might use a Rudimentary method. But knowing that no the danger outweigh Like like the chances of [ __ ] up Outweigh the chances of being are the
Are the henchmen involved. So the like In in this trafficking stuff the big Problem is they send the henchmen out to To get the Yeah. Yeah. They do today. This is what goes on. Okay. They send The henchmen out. They're not sending The person who is a controller. Right. It's not the person with the brains. It's right 100%. They're sending out Whatever you got to do to control this. They're sending the muscle. Yes. And that could be a rudimentary Situation. A sicko with a Rudimentary and and then and then that Would be that then that Child they probably had the intention of Bringing them to this person. Yeah. knew Enough of the Jean Benet and them to get The money. And then the question is like How do they know to abandon it? Well, if if I bet you I bet you they Were told if you killed accidentally Kill her or something, you abandon Something goes wrong. If your theory is Correct, they would have put the gro Around her and they would have dragged Her. They would have had to drag her Down the corridor down the stairs of the Basement. She could have hit her head And she could have suffocated. And then she's sitting there dead and They're like, "Shit." And she was six Years old, right? And they're sitting There like, "Shit, what do we do?" Yeah.
We're [ __ ] We got to get out of Here. Just leave. Yeah. I mean, there's No point in taking her Now. That's why I'm suspect of the Growth theory. I I the the trafficking Is very very interesting and It wasn't as known a thing. Uh no, she But she was she was Coveted. People would come to pageantss To watch her. I mean she she had What Would a trafficker do? What would a Trafficker do? Where would they get the People that they're selling to somebody Else? Yeah, I agree. I I mean they would have To You're talking about sick sick People, right? Really sick people. What are they gonna do to to like where Are they going to get, You know? I I think of these like these Movies. Well, they could have duct taped Her mouth. They could have done Something. Scared the [ __ ] out of me When I see these movies and [ __ ] like, You know, like they could have duct Taped her mouth. They could have done Anything else to try to subdue her. I Don't think a goat was the best Choice if it was Trafficking. Like I don't think you're You're gonna use a goat to control her. I think you know when I was growing up When I was growing up You're you're probably about no less
Than 10 years. When I was growing up That used to as a kid that was like my Big fear. Oh here too. We we had we used To always go we always used to like you Would hear these stories if you remember You would hear these stories about Something that happened somewhere, Right? Yep. And we used to I don't know If you did too. I think you're still From the era where you would have No, No, no. We had a major rode your bikes Everywhere and you ro you probably rode Your bikes with your friends. You Probably went out with your friends Everywhere, right? We we had a major Kidnapping in our area. Okay. You Probably don't know about it. It was Sarah Anne Wood if you look if you look It up. Sarah Anne Wood was Kidnapped. Um I actually she was a Cheerleader and I I played against her Team in Pop Warner football and she was Kidnapped in 1994 by Lewis Lent. Her Body hasn't been found to this day. And when that happened, um, it was it Was wild. Great. It was 93. Yeah, it was it was hectic. It was Crazy as hell around here. Um, Lewis Lent was the guy that was found to Kidnap her, but he has never given up The source of the body. He said he Buried her in the aderandex somewhere. They went in the in the winter and they
Were like melting snow and melting like Trying to unfreeze the ground to dig to Try to find her body and they never Found anything. Jesus. Did you look it up? Yeah. Yeah. So that Happened and that's when our parents Were like hyper vigil on like if you go Out make sure you're with someone, don't Go too far. My parents were never Worried about me because like Stephen, No one's gonna take Stephen Ste Steven is 160 pounds. They're never Going to get him. 10 years old. You're Not going to get you. That's that's a Battle that's not worth fighting. Um, No, it's it's just like I would say like Um my Yeah, like my parents when I was In high school, they would be worried About me going to this or that. You Know, I was, you know, 200 pound. They Were never worried about me in high School. It was it was uh They would worry about like oh you know Like you know my mother and I was like Mom I'm 200 10 pound like Right there there there are easier Targets than a target that would be a Battle right. So, um, and it it's always It's always the, uh, um, the what do you Call deer theory? The, uh, uh, the Wounded deer theory, you know, 100%. Why Why would you ever go after the harder Target when you go after the easier Target? Yeah. But it's it's it's it's
Um, but I remember when I growing up That there was some I don't remember What it was that have, but there's some Things and I remember they they you know Used to worry about like if you buy you You bite. Now nowadays obviously because Of those things during those time Periods those crazy cases some of these Serial killings parents obviously are Much more um cognizant and aware and They're you know they're they're much They watch their kids you know so uh Much much more so um because of some of Those things and um but yeah it's it's I I always you know it seems like it's an Isolated ated uh uh intruder or a couple Of intruders that Well, it was it was in In Boulder. In Boulder, the police were Not prepared to handle they were not Prepared of this magnitude. No. Never Seen anything like if you don't have a Good police Force, you know, it's very hard to Well, They don't see they don't see crime like That. I mean, the crime they see is uh I I I have a thing that we should talk I Think would be good to talk about next Time. Um is the David Caresh. I love David Caresh. I would love to talk about David Cares. Let's do that one next Week. You want to do David Caresh? Yeah. Yeah. Because you know I hope I just Watched it. I've watched all of it. So Yeah, because I've always been I've
Always wondered how David Caresh and Jim Jones. I love them both. I would do Both. I always wondered how much of it Was really the government's fault in in The final solute like the thing that Ended up finally killing all of them and How much this could have been prevented And how much of it was Um and how much of it was was it David Caresh uh being so obsessive compulsive On um you know uh of what he was doing And then how much of the uh obviously There was some level like he was Marrying him kid like there was all yeah He had 48 kids with he was banging all The women there wacky things going on so It was a very very it was a complicated Issue because of the fact That you had probably I'm not saying The followers branch dividians they Didn't have ill intentions those people No and David originally when you watch Story but David was paranoid And and Caresh and and Caresh was well He was on a lot of lot of [ __ ] Yes. He Was completely like like uh he was on a Lot of amphetamines. He was he was Crazy. He he went to a deep like he went To deep deep uh depths of um what's the Word? Like delusions. That's a word. Very delusional. Yes. Depths of Delusions that he was able to get the People to follow. He was Jesus Christ. Yeah. And and and it was crazy because
In the end when all of them Died, I feel like I always felt like and And we could talk about this a lot more Next time, but like I always felt like The the Government condemned all the branch Dividians. If you've seen all the Interviews After, they were they were condemned Along with Caresh when it was really Caresh and maybe his immediate followers That were the problem. But but not the The overall group of branch dividians Who really were like they were like Hopeless people looking for um well they I think they got to a point where they Realized we're [ __ ] and we have no way Out of this. Yes. But um well well David Did. David and his immediate followers Did. I tell you David was not gonna Retreat. David there was no way. Um, do I think the government escalated The situation? Yes. I think they Probably could have left them alone Longer. I mean, they showed up with [ __ ] tanks and armor and inf they Breached and they knew what was going to Happen if they and they had an insider Already. When you watch the whole WGO Thing, that guy was already in. He was Already making headway. Yeah. where he Had Caresh's trust where he could have Probably gotten Caresh away and they Could have just grabbed him. Yeah. They
Could have easily just grabbed him in One of their meetings and then and then Um uh and then Uh they wouldn't have drank the Kool-Aid And and then took the people who were Drinking the Kool-Aid and kind of like Got them off the cliff there. You know What I mean? That would have been easier Than with David in there. You know what I'm saying? They don't know like like Those people. Yeah. He barricaded Himself in. They had That was it. That Was a crazy case. That was a crazy case. I'm a huge fan of David Caresh and uh Jim Jones. I love cults. I love cults. I'd be great in a cult. You'd be a good You'd be a You'd be like A a dangerous like uh number two Henchman in a cult because you'd be Like, "I'll connect you with Yes. Whatever you need. Whatever you need. You'd be the connector. You'd be Dangerous. You'd be more dangerous. You'd be more dangerous than the Leader." What do you mean? Oxitz isn't In Germany. Oh my god. How did that Happen? So, uh, to wrap this up, are you Of you're of the theory obviously it was An intruder. It was not Or it could have been trafficking. I I Think either trafficking although you're Right that wasn't as big of a thing back Then but but that was the time when it Was really starting to it was starting
To pick up pick up like you know the Whole crazy pizzay thing that they talk About with the Clintons and all this Crazy [ __ ] like that was New York like You know like I don't know what what's True and what isn't true but that was The time period when a lot of this stuff Was starting. So, my theory, I have two Theories and I don't know if any of them Are true. This is why obviously I don't Know anywhere near enough to know. I Don't think the Ramsies did it. They Didn't. I don't think they did either. I Think that it was either someone that Was had some knowledge of the Ramsies or Knew of the Ramsies or had some Following of the Ramsies or some sort of Uh trafficking situation. Gone gone wrong, right? Gone wrong. And Um something regardless of what Happened, whether it was trafficking or Kidnapping or ransom, something did go Wrong because she was killed. I don't Think that was the plan. Yeah, I don't Think that was the plan. I I think maybe It was Ransom and something happened and she Was killed. Uh Adam Williams commented This was done by hireups. Well, is there Any theory to this may implicate the Police? Well, that that well that's what I was saying like is there any relation Like this is it's a different time Period, right? Is there anything where
Either the Police, not not the police itself, but a Person from within the police department Or someone related to someone within the Police department or knowledge, you Know, like they or they did they know of This? Did they know or or I mean it's That's a hard stretch, too. I mean, I Don't know. Well, it's be the money Issue is what I can't get over. Makes you think the ransom not though Makes you is what would make you think That it was Someone that knew the Ramsies or the Ramsies themselves, right? That knew That knew his exact Bonus. That's what I can't get over. That's where that's where the whole Trafficking thing like like look if you Were to go to Mexico, right? Where when The cartels are running like I don't Know a town. Let's say the cartels and Trying to control a town. Well, they Also control the police, right? Yep. Yep. So something happens or something is Done by let's say the cartel like in in In Mexico and the police know of it. But If the police know the person, but They're a cartel member and that could Badly reflect on them or or then that Could be a you know what I'm saying? Like it's wow. Uh Adam Williams says Definitely committed by either Epstein
Or Epstein like people. Epstein's main victim just committed Suicide. Yeah. Okay. this country world Is run by pedophiles in every Government. It's quite a theory. Um I Well, that would go to my my Version of a trafficking. I mean, I Don't know if it's a It's a pedal case. Definitely. It's Definitely a pedal case. Yeah, she was Raped. Yeah, that's my thing. Is this a Trafficking case? Yeah, like it wasn't Known back then, you know, the mid 90s Like this stuff was probably going on, But it wasn't out there. It was not Labeled as expose it. Right. Right. You Have social media to expose that there Was some level of trafficking. And That's where the trafficking is where You get into the corruption element. Yes. Of of police, right? And the small Town policemen. Yeah. Yeah. Make making $40,000 a year. Yeah. You'll never know Though. We'll never know. No, I I I I Think we will. I think in our lifetimes We will. I think that Yeah, I think I Think I mean I only got about 30 years, Steve. So got I think I think DNA will Match eventually. If you were to go to this guy's theory, Let's let's say Adam Williams' theory. M He's right about the time frame with Epstein. You know, the Clintons were in
Office 96. It's it's just leading up to It and and it may and when saying like Epstein like meaning a a trafficking Version like because Epstein was what Involved with like teenagers, right? Or Something I think is it was young girls. Yes. Right. But not like not that young Toddlers 14 and above. A different Trafficking source. You know what I'm Saying? Correct. So some other Trafficking source. And the Yeah, I mean That's listen there's a lot of devil Worshipping crazy [ __ ] that goes on that Like Um and that was a time period you know That was just the beginning of the Internet right that was just like you Didn't have information like you had now Like [ __ ] if you go back to like I mean This is way before our time but you go Back to like the 50s and 60s and the 40s Like you wouldn't even know like There's Probably things going on that no one's Ever talked about that we would never Even know. You know what I mean? Yeah. And Adam says, uh, yes, a Trafficking version, not Epstein Himself. There's a photo of a woman Right next to Jean Benet that looks like Jill Jolene Maxwell. I doubt it's her, But it looks like Her. Wow. Wow. That's crazy. I'm going to look for That. He He could be right. You You
Could be spot on. It could be Trafficking. But I just think Did we Miss our Did we miss our calling? Should We have um Uh been um uh Well, it wouldn't be CIA. What would it be? What? Investigators? You want to be Investigators? No, I said should we have Been It wouldn't be CIA, though. What Would it be? What would it be that Investigates? like um cold case Investigators. No, it wouldn't be cold Case. It would be higher, wouldn't it? Because if you're trying to pull out Trafficking, wouldn't that be CIA? It Like what was the movie I watched? Oh, It was a the series. It was crazy. It Was about Well, there there's special Investigation units that investigate Trafficking. I'm trying to think though. It was a group that Was what was you know I I've watched you Like you I've watched so many of these Like yeah I mean and all these kind of Things so there some of it blends Together I'm trying to remember what it Was it's it's not the ATF it's not the CIA it might have been Narcos um or yeah I think it was Narcos or or one of those from Netflix. Yeah. Did you watch Narcos? Yeah, of Course. Which originally started with the whole
Pablo Escobar deal and then but what was Interesting was like when you get to the Deep depths of these things El Chapo Y The level El El Chapo yeah I think it Was maybe it was El Chapo I don't know Might have been the El Chapo one it was El Chapo yeah how they were like u the Guy was going so deep like they were so Deep undercover on this stuff And the the layers and levels of I mean It it it's so intricate how they're Running it. They're running it like Governments. You know what I'm saying? They do. They do these operations like Governments or like large corporations. There's special online auctions where You can purchase these women. I mean, It's crazy. It's so sophisticated how it Works. And that could have been the very Beginning of it. But again, I go back to The ransom number and the gro that That's the only thing that just doesn't Make sense to me. Well, the root the Rudimentary methodology of That could only have lent itself to Something bad happening. Yeah, that's What I'm saying. Before you accomplish The goal, she's a she's a little girl. I Mean, you you could have just duct taped Her and and brought her Out or or shot her up with Something that's I mean, they could have Gone to uh uh a veterinarian and got Ketamine and given her a little special
K, knocked her out, carried her out, Party done. But they had so many complications along The way that they they ended up killing Her and then sexually but I I think the Sexual assault was to probably cover up Yeah, I I believe so too. Cover up the Or to indict the parents. Yeah, it was it was probably done to do That and throw them off the scene. Yeah. Yeah. To throw them off. But yeah, so I I do go with the Intruder slashtraicking angle. I just Think it was botched. Oh, oh, he posted Something here below. What is this? Look Up Franklin coverup. If you don't know about it, we will. We Will. We will go. Thank you. Thank you, Adam. Thank you, Adam, for your Contribution. We don't know who you are. We don't You're a little scary that you Know all this stuff, but No, it's not. I Mean, he's right. Thank you for knowing It all. He's right about it. So, uh, That's awesome. So, you want to do the Branch Devidians and Waco next week? Yes. I guess we're you like Yeah, let's Uh let's talk. I love that. I I have no Problem doing that. I'm Jim Jones, by The way, all the crazy of crazy cult Things. That's my favorite one. to this Day is is even crazier than the branch Devidians because how he Got all those people
To move to freaking Ghana to move to Is That where it was? Was it It was They Built in in Georgetown. South America. It was South America. Yeah. It's not G. Ghana's in Africa, dude. Oh, okay. Well, It was Georgetown somewhere. Yeah. Jim Jones. Uh, where was Jonestown? I Thought it was Guyana. Guyana. Well, I was close. Guyana. You're closer, but just just for your Reference, Ghana's in Africa. G. Yeah, Guyana. Yeah. And they bu And it was Basically slave labor. How he put them To work to build this place in the 90 Degree heat. And uh then the congressman And the parents, the families come to Visit and they all get killed. It's Great. But I'll do the I'll do the Branch devidians next Week, you guys. Yeah. Yeah. I think Um you know what other one would be an Interesting one too? Um, do you remember The cult where Um they had the sneakers on and they Were all they all No. Do you remember That one? The um Uh they all had the Nikes on No, I do not know. I do not know that One. They were Called Heaven's Gate. You don't remember Heaven's Gate? No. No, I do not know Not not a he I'll look it up. Oh, you Gota look that up, too. I I will I will
Read about it for sure. That's a crazy One, Too. That That's That's not as massive. It was 25 people, but it's pretty crazy. I'll read about that for sure. I'll read About that for sure. So, all right. Well, till next time. We got some good Ones. Um, and then uh and then Friday, Depending on what you want to Do, if you want to if you want to uh do The baseball team, um, they're Yeah, Let's do let's do that Friday. Yeah, They're do the they're on a 13 game win Streak. They're rallying. Chris Decitis said. So, we'll try it. We'll try to do baseball. We'll try We'll make it a a special edition. See How it goes. Yeah, we'll see how it Goes. Husky hard ball. We'll see how it Goes. You can come up with a nice Graphic for it. Yeah, let's Yeah, let's See. And the Billy the Liquor Guy one Ended up doing pretty well. It popped up To 400 or 500 viewers. Oh, Billy the Liquor Guy's over 500 now. Yeah. See, I Told you. Um and and Red Republic from The other day. I'm telling you, it's Going through the roof. Oh, I I saw it. I saw it. I saw it. I I just posted it Because I get yelled at for posting. So Funny. And uh yeah, I get yelled at for Posting it. But it's funny. Who yells at You?
Mainly ooey, but it's okay. Um Episode we didn't talk about anything Crazy. No, no, no, we did. We didn't. We Didn't. Um yeah, we'll do we'll do Husky Hard ball. I like that. And uh then you you got Bell Core Tonight and then I got Andrew Adams and Then Um I'm going to try to get Uh the meeting set with uh Billy's Agents to help us and Billy has an agent Here who can also pro probably help help Us. All right. All right. Till next Time. All right. So, uh, remember when Life gives you lemons, don't make Lemonade. Take two oranges, throw it Back at life.
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